• Brand:  TaylorMade
• Model:  P7MB
• Year Of Release:  2020

• Club:  7 Iron (35*)

One.  Selling or trading in your clubs to a second hand golf club business is a bad idea because second hand golf club businesses will very likely make you a low or very low offer for your clubs. The reason for this is partly because it’s very hard for anyone to accurately predict how much second hand golf clubs are worth ie what price they will sell for and how long it will take at any given price. A business has to be confident that they will sell the clubs for significantly more money than what they are offering you and since they’re not even sure what price they will sell them for or how long it will take, that will likely lead them to making you a low or very low offer for your clubs.

Two.  I would highly recommend that you sell your clubs on eBay using a 7 day auction to a buyer who lives in the same country as you (or within the UK if you live in the UK). This will most likely get you the highest price possible for your clubs compared to the other options, especially since selling on eBay is now free for private sellers (non business sellers). Selling your clubs by auction is the best option if you want to sell them within a month for the highest possible price but only if your photos are good ie very close up shots of all of the clubfaces and backs of clubheads taken in good lighting, as well as other photos showing the soles, shafts (including shaft labels) and grips. If you also get a photo of all of the clubs over the edge of a table (as shown in my photos) that will let the buyer know of any irregular shaft lengths without you actually having to measure all of the club lengths with a metal ruler or tape measure. Bad or lazy photo taking will put many people off bidding on your auction and will likely lead to a low winning bid because people will be unsure what condition your clubs are in or if there is something bad about the clubs which you haven’t taken a photo of. I think that good photos can increase the winning bid by more than £100 compared to bad photos so spending a little longer taking photos is definitely worth your time.

Three.  The alternative to selling your clubs on eBay is to sell them to a golfer who lives close to you by advertising them on obvious websites but there will be lots more people on eBay who will be interested in buying your clubs compared to local golfers. The more people there are who are interested in buying your clubs the more likely it is that they will sell for the highest price possible. Posting a set of irons within the UK will only cost you around £13.50 and you will save money and hassle if you pick a good courier (see paragraph 13).

Four.  Selling your clubs using a ‘buy it now’ listing on eBay comes with more risk and potentially more hassle than an auction because you could mistakenly list your clubs at a price that’s much lower than what the clubs would sell at in auction but a ‘buy it now’ listing will most likely get you a higher price than an eBay auction but only if you are prepared to wait several months to get it. If you choose to use a ‘buy it now’ listing and you price it too high, your clubs will never sell. Price it too low and they will likely sell quickly and somewhere in the middle could take several months. A ‘buy it now’ listing also comes with more risk because the higher the price you sell your clubs for, the more likely it is that you will have an unhappy buyer who thinks they paid too much if your photos have made your clubs look in better condition than they actually are in. If that’s the case they may want to return them to you for a refund under the eBay money back guarantee (see paragraph 9).

Five.  You can’t change or add more photos to your eBay listing once your eBay auction goes live, so it’s best to make sure that the photos are good and that all of your photos are added before you start it. eBay allow 24 photos for free so the more photos the better.

Six.  Auctions on eBay with a reserve price rarely sell because it puts many people off bidding so the winning bid is almost always lower than the reserve price so it may be better to start the auction at whatever the reserve price is instead but auctions with a low start price get placed higher up the results page and will get seen by the most people.

Seven.  Some second hand golf club businesses offer a ‘price match guarantee’ or ‘we’ll beat quotes from other businesses by 10%’ etc but that involves you wasting time contacting multiple businesses to get the highest quote possible and then wasting more time entering into conversation trying to prove that another business offered you X amount for your clubs. By selling your clubs by eBay auction, you cut all of the unnecessary conversation out because you only have to take good photos once, add them to your listing, write a short listing description, list the auction and then let it run and the clubs will be sold to the highest bidder. Many second hand golf club businesses will actually look at eBay auctions as well as lots of golfers wanting to buy clubs for their own use.

Eight.  eBay don’t allow sellers to do trade ins/ part exchanges. If you trade in clubs to any seller on eBay you will not get any help from eBay if the seller doesn’t honour the agreed trade in price after they get your clubs. You have to buy and sell clubs on separate eBay listings.

Nine.  Bad or minimal photos can either make second hand golf clubs look in much better condition than they actually are in or they can leave out important information such as irregular shafts or irregular shaft lengths. If that’s the case, your buyer can return them to you for a refund under the eBay moneyback guarantee or they can ask you for money off instead. I think this also depends on the price your clubs sell for. For example, I have bought clubs from a seller on eBay via auction and I thought that the sellers’ photos had made the clubs look in significantly better condition than they actually were in but I did not ask for money off or want to return them because I was still happy with the price I paid but had the winning bid been much higher I would have either asked for money off or returned the clubs back for a refund under the eBay money back guarantee. 

As a seller, you don’t have to give a buyer any money off if you don’t want to but if you and the buyer do not agree on a partial refund amount, the buyer will have the option to return clubs for a full refund and eBay will charge you for the buyer’s return postage costs via the free eBay returns postage label. This is true even if you don’t accept returns. A buyer can also return clubs to you if your buyer cares about club specs and you have mentioned something wrong on your listing such as ‘standard length and lie’ but they aren’t. 

These are similar problems to what you’ll have if you sell or trade in your clubs to an online golf club business because they will likely reduce the offer after they get your clubs. This is also true if they disagree with how you rated them compared to their condition ratings but it’s also possible that their initial offer for your clubs will be so low that they won’t reduce it unless the photos you send them are either really bad or if your ratings are very different to what theirs would be.

Ten.  It’s best to only mention anything that you are sure about on your listing such as standard length or lie angles so unless you really trust the previous owner to have given you accurate information on clubs specs either don’t mention it on your listing or you could maybe write that the previous owner told you that information but you haven’t measured them yourself so you’re not sure. Loft and lie angles on irons and wedges can shift a bit with use so the clubs you are selling could be in a different spec to what they were when you bought them. 

Eleven. The eBay moneyback guarantee is open to abuse from buyers by people making false claims about the listing being ‘not as described’ but anyone abusing it will likely get banned from using eBay. Since I started taking very close up photos of all the clubfaces a number of years ago I haven’t had anyone who has wanted to return clubs to me under the eBay moneyback guarantee. Close to 6% of buyers have returned clubs to me but only because the clubs didn’t suit but I offer a 14 day trial on second hand iron sets.

Twelve.  Sometimes the winning bidder will change their mind and decide not to pay. Buyers aren’t allowed to do that but people still do it. If that happens you can either offer the second or third highest bidder to pay instead via a ‘second chance offer’ or you can re-list the auction again but if you wait two weeks or so you may get another discounted selling fee offer from eBay. 

Thirteen.  Occasionally couriers lose parcels but you can pay extra to insure the parcel to the full value which means that the courier will pay you out the value of the parcel if they fail to deliver it. I currently use Parcelforce for iron sets which is the courier that Royal Mail uses for larger sized parcels. They have not lost a single parcel of mine in at least 700 parcels posted. I have never had a buyer claim that they didn’t receive the clubs either (apart from on two occasions when the clubs were delivered to a local Post Office and they failed to leave a note in the letterbox telling the buyer where the clubs were but both buyers got the clubs after I told them about it.) 

The least hassle method for using Parcelforce is to pay for postage at the Post Office which as of 04/09/24 costs £13.45 for a set of irons delivered anywhere in the UK, including Northern Ireland. This includes £150 cover with the option to pay extra for more. You don’t even need to waste time weighing or measuring box dimensions because they will do that for you. Parcelforce allow box sizes of up to 150cm and nearly all golf club boxes are 100-123 cm in length. Sometimes Post Office workers will forget to give you the correct receipt with the tracking number on it which is your proof of postage. The tracking number will be labelled as ‘barcode’ on the receipt.

I advise not using eBay’s postage labels to post items out because in the past I was overcharged for them and you also don’t have the option to pay extra to insure the clubs to the full value.

Fourteen.  When packaging iron sets, it is best to use a golf club box or similar sized box. Golf club pro shops will normally give away spare golf club boxes for free if you don’t have one. The big second hand golf club businesses use elastic bands to secure clubs together so that they aren’t rattling around inside the box and they may wrap bubble wrap or paper around the clubheads as well. You need the right sized elastic bands for that though (number 64 size) which most people don’t have so a good alternative is to either wrap each clubhead with bubble wrap or kitchen roll and tape it around each clubhead or to use headcovers instead. It’s best to not use any tape directly on the clubs though because it will leave a residue when its removed. You can then just put the clubs inside the box one at a time and it won’t matter if the clubs are rattling around inside it because the clubheads will be well protected. 

If you don’t use a golf club box to post the clubs or over-protect them by wrapping the grips and shafts tightly with bubble wrap etc it could make it hard to remove and your buyer may damage clubs in the process by cutting into the grips or shafts.

Fifteen.  If you have a business eBay account, you may get significantly reduced eBay fees for every listing instead of receiving regular offers but you have to pay insertion fees just to advertise on eBay but overall it can work out to 50-80% off eBay fees. 

I think eBay may only give significantly reduced eBay fees to business accounts that have a very low percentage of buyers returning items under the eBay money back guarantee.

1. DIY Length and Lie Angle Custom Fitting For Irons And Wedges And Why They Can Be Important.

Key Points:

1. The clubhead needs to be square to the ground at impact in order to strike the ball solid and out of the middle of the clubface, particularly when not using a golf tee.

2. The lie angle of a golf club is the angle between the clubhead and the shaft.

3. You will need a particular lie angle spec in your irons depending on your own stance and swing in order to have the clubheads square to the ground at impact.

4. You can use Ping’s colour code chart to find out what that is, even if buying irons from a different brand.

5. If the lie angles of your irons aren’t right for you, you will likely be able to adjust your stance to suit the lie angles of your clubs instead.

6. Lie angles can be adjusted on irons (and wedges) by a club pro or golf shop using a loft/lie machine but many club pros are very cautious and will only adjust by a small amount, most likely out of fear of breaking clubs and being held responsible.

The lie angle of a golf club is the angle created between the shaft and the sole of the clubhead when the club is in the address position. 

Getting the correct lie angles in your irons and wedges for your own individual stance and swing is important because the soles of the clubheads need to be square to the ground at impact to allow you to strike the ball solid and to hit the ball out of the middle of the clubface and at the target. Lie angles are more important the more loft the club has.

In general, golfers that are shorter in height need irons and wedges with flatter lie angles and/or shorter length clubs and taller golfers need more upright lie angles and/or longer length clubs. It also depends on what stance you have. If you like to stand tall in the address position (and at impact) you will need more upright lie angles and/or longer length clubs. If you like to stand very bent over at the hips with lots of knee bend you will need flatter lie angles and/or shorter length clubs. The last or second last photo on this listing shows two extreme examples of a very bent over stance versus a very tall stance, just to show what this looks like. 

If you buy a set of irons (or wedges) and the lie angles are either too upright or too flat for you, in many cases you will be able to adjust your stance to suit the lie angles of your clubs, which is not ideal if you have a preferred stance but it can be done. This should either raise or lower your hands at impact and thus change the angle of the shaft. You can also vary the distance you stand from the ball. The further you stand away from the ball, the higher your hands will be but changing your stance will make a larger difference to the height of your hands than varying the distance you stand from the ball. 

You will likely not have to adjust your stance by as much as either of the golfers shown in the photo. The photo of the golfer with a very tall stance is a younger Bryson Dechambeau when he used to use irons which were ten degrees upright in lie angle, which is extremely upright and more upright than any other golfer would use. He also stood further away from the ball than normal as well which also raised his hands to a higher position. This I understand was to accommodate the ‘one plane’ swing that he was using at the time, in which the clubhead travels on the shaft plane at address throughout the whole swing, which is almost impossible unless you have clubs with very upright lie angles.

Lie angles can be adjusted on any iron or wedge by using a ‘loft/lie machine’ which most club pros and big golf shops have and they usually charge around £3-5 per club to do this for you. However, If you are happy and able to adjust your stance to suit the lie angles of your irons and wedges, you will not need to pay someone to have them adjusted but if the lie angles of your clubs are very irregular (such as the PW being two degrees upright and the 9 iron being one degree flat etc) I would advise having them adjusted so that you don’t have to take a significantly different stance with each club in your bag. One or two degrees doesn’t sound like much but I have read that a one degree change in the shaft angle corresponds to a ten degree change in the angle of the sole of the club ie toe up or toe down, which is significant. 

Many club pros are very cautious and will not make loft or lie angle adjustments on cast irons (ie non-forged irons) out of fear of breaking clubs and being held responsible for it. (A clubmaker on YouTube actually adjusted the lie angle of a cast iron by seven degrees before the club broke). Forged irons are easier to bend but many club pros will only bend by a maximum of two degrees in either direction.

The following is how Ping custom fit people for irons and wedges. This is based on what I have read online from Ping, I think they provide the most helpful information in regards to custom fitting for irons in regards to club lengths and lie angles. This information can be used for any brand of clubheads but it’s worth mentioning that standard spec lie angles vary a little from brand to brand but it will be at most 1.5 degrees of difference. For example, Mizuno’s standard spec lie angle of a 7 iron is 61.5 degrees and Ping’s is 63 degrees. The rest will be somewhere in between.

According to Ping their lie angle estimates get golfers to within plus or minus one degree of their required lie angle spec 75 % of the time and within plus or minus two degrees 95% of the time.

Start with static fitting:

Use Ping’s colour code chart to give you a good estimate of what lie angle spec you need in your irons and wedges, even if you are buying from another brand of clubheads. To watch a relevant youTube video on this from Ping, please do a youTube search for ‘2017 Ping chart’ and watch the first youTube result.

This estimate (based solely on your ‘wrist to floor’ measurement) will give you a good estimate if you buy a set of irons which are standard length. This is regardless of what height you are. If you buy a set of irons which are longer or shorter than standard length, you can adjust the lie angle spec slightly to compensate, but it will only be around half a degree for every half inch longer or shorter in club length.

Ping give club length recommendations based on your height, but precise club lengths are just a recommendation and are not really that important, but lie angles are. Club lengths become more important if you are either really tall or are of average height but like to stand very tall in the address position. If either of those apply to you and you buy a set of irons or wedges that are too short in length for you, you will struggle to adjust your stance by the required amount and you will have to get the lie angles adjusted to be made much more upright, which your club pro probably won’t want to do if they’re very cautious. 

Some golfers who prioritise accuracy and consistency may prefer shorter length clubs because shorter clubs can help with that and some golfers who want to hit the ball longer may prefer longer length clubs because longer clubs help to increase swing speed.

What you need to do:

1. Wear normal shoes (without big heels) and have a friend measure the vertical distance between your wrist and the floor in inches using a tape measure when you are standing upright with your hands hanging down naturally by your sides. (Just to be clear, you want to measure from where you hand meets your wrist, ie the wrist crease).
2. Do a google image search for ‘Ping colour code chart’ and look at the first image result.
3. Match up your ‘wrist to floor’ measurement with a lie angle specification. This is the recommended lie angle spec required for you if you buy a set of irons which are standard length, regardless of what height you are.

1. Do a youTube search for ‘DIY lie angle check’ and watch the first youTube result by ‘50 yards longer’ which is a short, helpful video that shows you how to do the test. Just to add to the information provided in that video, you need to use either a good whiteboard marker or a good permanent marker pen, but using a permanent marker pen will require more effort to clean the lines off your clubfaces afterwards.
2. You can do this test when you are hitting off a range mat or when hitting from grass but if you are on grass you need to use a tee. You can do the test with all of your irons and wedges, or to save time you could do it with perhaps three or four clubs instead such as a long iron, mid iron, short iron and your most lofted wedge. If the lines are not going straight up and down the clubfaces leave the lines on the clubfaces and hand all of your clubs to your club pro to make the required lie angle adjustments, or make changes to your stance and re-do the test and keep repeating this until the lines are going straight up the clubfaces.
3. Clean the lines off the clubfaces afterwards using water and a sponge scourer or cloth and dry the clubheads using a towel. (You may need to clean lines off clubfaces every few shots or so if the new lines are going over the old ones and you can’t see what direction the new lines are going.)

Before buying any new golf clubs and before paying to get custom fit for golf clubs I recommend watching a helpful youTube video by Tiger Woods’ ex swing coach Hank Haney. (Hank coached Tiger from 2004- 2010.) The video covers some of the problems with modern golf clubs and club fitting. To find the video, please do a youTube search for ‘Golf equipment today on the Hank Haney Podcast’ and its the first video on the results page. If you start the video at the one minute and twenty four second mark you can skip his sponsored ads.

I would advise anyone who is unsure of what new or second hand iron set they should buy to get custom fit for irons, not because its really important to be ‘custom fit’ for golf clubs by a fitter, but because its the easiest and quickest way to try out many different clubhead and shaft options in the one place. Getting custom fit for irons is more important to do if your performance and scoring is important to you and you want to find out what the most suitable clubhead and shaft combinations are for your current golf game. In most cases, every time you buy and sell an iron set it will cost you a significant amount of money just to change clubs so it’s good if you can buy a suitable iron set on your first purchase. If you happen to live close to a big second hand golf club shop with many iron sets to choose from and they allow you to try the clubs out at a driving range or practice net, that’s a good alternative but you will not know what lie angle spec the irons (or wedges) are when you are trying them out and lie angles can be important as mentioned in my first guide. During an iron fitting you will be able to try out many different clubhead and shaft options in your required lie angle spec for your current stance and swing.  

What I have written below is based on a mixture of my own research on this topic, from watching different youTube videos, reading online and also my own opinions from my past experience of playing golf and trying different clubheads and shafts. Some of this information also came from Mark Crossfield in some of his older youTube videos. Mark Crossfield is a club pro and teacher and is quite big on youTube. I like some his older youTube videos because he challenged many golf myths.

There are different types of custom fitting available for irons but before paying to get custom fit I would advise checking that you will be able to try out a significant number of different shaft and clubhead options. Some golf shops will advertise custom fitting for irons when they are offering for you to try out three or four different clubhead options with just a few different shafts in three different flexes but that is not a proper custom fitting. At a proper fitting you will be able try out virtually every clubhead and shaft option available, should you want to. The biggest problem with custom fitting for irons is that it’s mainly only geared towards trying and buying the latest brand new iron clubheads from any given brand of clubheads but it will still be beneficial for you if you would like to buy a second hand set afterwards on eBay for a lot less money than what a new iron set will cost you. Buying a second hand iron set from a seller on eBay that accepts returns is also safer than buying a new iron set because worst case scenario is that you will have to pay around £13 to post the clubs back to the seller for a full refund if you don’t like them. If you buy a new iron set and you decide after a week or two that you don’t like them or the shafts aren’t right for you etc, you won’t be able to return them for a refund and you will likely have to sell them to someone else for much less than what you paid for them, which has happened sometimes with iron sets that I have bought. I have bought sets of irons from people in almost new condition who told me that they were custom fit for them and that they liked the clubheads and shafts at their fitting but decided a week or two after buying them that either the shafts or clubheads weren’t right for them and they sold them to me for much less than they paid for them. 

A couple of limitations though of custom fitting for irons is that you likely will have to hit balls off range mats or artificial turf when trying different clubheads and shaft out. This will give you a good idea of what you’ll like and perform best with but hitting balls off range mats is not the same as real grass. You can often strike the turf a little before the ball on a range mat and get away with it and still strike the ball well when you wouldn’t have from grass. This can give you a false perception of how consistent you are at your fitting with any clubheads or shafts that you are trying. You also might only be able to try different clubheads and shafts out with the 7 iron only which is not ideal either. 

Brands of clubheads release a new range of irons every two years or so with very minor tweaks made. In nearly all cases, the brands that make iron shafts are completely separate to the brands that make the clubheads and most or all of the current available shafts have been available for many years so you will very likely find a set of second hand irons on eBay that is almost identical to your most preferred clubhead and shaft combinations that you tried at your custom fitting session, particularly if you are open to buying irons from any brand of clubheads. I know that many golfers will have a favourite brand of clubheads but all of the well known brands have many players on tour playing their clubs (and playing well with them) so I think they all make equally or almost equally good clubs and they all sell very similar clubhead options from one brand to the next, so you are giving yourself more options to choose from in the second hand golf club market if you look at all of the top brands of clubheads. My thoughts on this is that if there’s a successful tour player using irons from a certain brand of clubheads, the brand is making clubs good enough for any amateur to use. Please note that most second hand iron sets available on eBay are standard length or close to it so if you want irons that are significantly longer or shorter than standard, you have far less second hand iron sets to choose from so you may struggle to find a second hand iron set on eBay that is nearly identical to your preferred options at your custom fitting session. New irons beat second hand irons on performance because of sharp grooves which my guide on ‘value for money in second hand golf clubs’ goes into more detail about so when I write ‘almost identical’ I mean excluding the worn groove issue on second hand irons and wedges, but that mainly applies to irons and wedges that are well used ie in bad condition.

Each brand of clubheads such as Titleist or TaylorMade offer around 4 to 6 different clubhead options for irons. There will be a set of non forgiving muscle back irons at one end to a set of very forgiving chunky looking cavity back irons at the other end and there will be 2-3 sets in between those two extremes with variable levels of forgiveness, clubface size and offset. Please note that the lofts of irons between different iron models can vary considerably. In general, the lofts of the most forgiving irons ie the ones aimed at higher handicappers have stronger lofts than the less forgiving irons aimed at lower handicappers. This is to give people the impression that they are hitting their irons further but its really a lie. Brands are just taking a 4-6 iron and writing 7 on it, although they often make the club the length of a 7 iron but the clubhead isn’t a 7 iron. For example, the 7 iron loft of Titleist’s least forgiving iron (the MB) is 35 degrees but the loft of Titleist’s most forgiving 7 iron (the T400) is 26 degrees and for comparion the Titleist MB 5 iron is 27 degrees so if you are trying to compare distances between different iron clubheads at your custom fitting session you can’t properly do so unless you know what the loft is, but with irons and wedges the two most important things are to be able to consistently hit the ball online and a specific distance, not how far you can hit them. Picking the clubheads you want in your irons should be down to a combination of how much forgiveness you want on off centre hits and what you like the look of in the address position. Some golfers prefer irons with a very compact look with minimal offset and thin toplines and others prefer the opposite or something in the middle. 

There are far more iron shafts available than there are clubheads and because there are so many there will be a number of these shafts that will be suitable for you, but a number of these shafts will also be unsuitable. 

In my opinion the most important things to learn from a custom fitting session for irons are what your preferred iron shafts are, rather than your preferred clubheads. This is because I think a suitable or unsuitable shaft will make a much bigger difference to your consistency of ball striking and accuracy compared to a suitable or unsuitable clubhead. Just to explain the reasons for this, I think the difference in forgiveness levels on off- centre hits between most iron clubheads that are targeted at amateur golfers, ie any clubhead with a cavity, is much smaller than what most people make out. I don’t think anyone is sure how much of a difference this actually is because without robot testing it’s very hard for anyone to know because even the best amateur golfers are not consistent enough to test this properly. If the clubhead brands are doing robot testing to test the differences in carry distances and accuracy on off centre hits between their different clubhead models, or between their latest and previous models they are not making the results of that public so because of that, take anything a reviewer or brand tells you on how forgiving a club is compared to another club with a pinch of salt. As long as there is at least a small cavity in the back of the clubhead the iron will be quite forgiving on off-centre hits and if you strike the ball solidly and out of the centre of the clubface the brand or model of clubhead will not make any significant or noticeable difference to your shots but a suitable or unsuitable shaft will. Some iron shaft models are supposed to be low launch, low spin and others high launch, high spin etc but according to Mark Crossfield in his youTube videos when he and other very good golfers tested that out with a launch monitor when trying different shafts the difference a shaft (and flex of the shaft) makes to to launch angle and spin rate from one shaft to the next is very small, but depending on how you swing the golf club some shafts will just work better with your swing and will help you to be more consistent with ball striking and accuracy, so you should pick a shaft that helps you strike the ball solidly and at the target as consistently as possible rather than picking a shaft for a desired ball flight. A suitable or unsuitable shaft for you will be down to a combination of your shaft weight preferences and the makeup of a shaft and how much it suits your swing. In general, lighter weight iron shafts allow you to swing the club faster and but often at a cost of consistency of ball striking and accuracy. Heavier iron shafts slow down your swing speed a bit and therefore you won’t hit the ball as far but you may be more consistent. How heavy is too heavy and how light is too light will vary from golfer to golfer so you need to try iron shafts of different weights to find that out. 

Mark Crossfield said in one of his videos that he thinks shaft weight is more important than flex. Shaft flex can be important as well but just not as much as shaft weight. Although heavier weight shafts can make you more consistent, golfers who have lower back pain or joint pain may prefer lighter weight shafts than they are easier on the body and may leave you less sore after your round.

Bryson Dechambeau said in one of his youTube videos words to the effect of it is easier to strike the ball well and be accurate when you are trying to swing fast (but in control). I think this is particularly true when you are nervous so based on that I think you need a shaft that works for your 80-90% swing. Bubba Watson said that when you are nervous and you start to be delicate is when bad things can happen.

Iron shaft weights can be broken up into different weight brackets which can be described as:

Heavy/ Tour Weight: 120+ grams (mostly steel)

Mid Weight: 100-120 grams (mostly steel)

Light Weight: 80-100 grams (mostly steel)

Super Light Weight: Under 80 grams (mostly graphite)

I have read that in general, most male amateur golfers prefer iron shafts in the mid weight range ie between 100 and 120 grams. Most professional golfers on tour prefer iron shafts in the heavy weight range ie 120+ grams and most tour players’ iron shafts would be at the heavier end of that ie between 125 and 132 grams.

The bulk majority of second hand iron sets on eBay (for men) have steel shafts and the lightest steel shaft currently available for irons is 73 grams in weight and most graphite iron shafts are under 80 grams in weight.

‘Swing weight’ is supposed to be a measure of how heavy or light a club feels when you swing a club, rather than the actual weight of the club. Different irons have different swing weights according to the standard specs of iron models that you find online. Irons aimed at good players have slightly higher swing weights than irons aimed a higher handicappers and if you are comparing iron clubheads from brand to brand that are similar in terms of who they are aimed at and how they look at the address position they will be very similar swing weights. You get iron shafts that are variable weights such as the True Temper AMT tour white shafts and according to True Temper they have adjusted the balance point on each shaft so the swing weight of each club is the same but every time I have swung irons with AMT shafts the lighter long iron shafts feel lighter to me to swing compared to the heavier short iron shafts even though they are supposed to be all the same swing weight so based on that I would advise to ignore swing weight and pick irons based on shaft weight if you want the clubs to feel heavier or lighter to you when you swing them.

Different iron shafts are targeted at golfers with different swing speeds and swing tempos. Shaft flex is normally chosen based on a mixture of swing tempo and swing speed. A good fitter will know the iron shafts that are targeted at different swing speeds and tempos and after watching you hit balls they will know which shafts they should suggest for you to try. A bad fitter won’t know what shafts they should be suggesting for you to try or a bad fitter could be suggesting and pointing you towards the most expensive shafts available because they may be on commission and think that you are going to buy a new set of irons with expensive shafts, in which case they would make more money from you the more money you spend. 

Swing speed= how fast the clubhead is travelling at impact. 

Swing tempo= how you swing the golf club fast or slow, such as speed of backswing, a pause or no pause at the top of backswing, starting the downswing before the backswing is finished and how wristy you are through impact. 

An example of a fast swing tempo is Rory McIlroy whose whole swing is fast, from start to finish and does not have a pause at the top of the backswing. Rory McIlroy also has a fast or very fast swing speed. Golfers with a fast swing speed and fast swing tempo put the more stress on the shaft during the swing and cause them to bend more so they usually prefer heavier iron shafts, extra stiff shafts and shafts that are targeted at them because they find them easier to control and find the centre of the clubface consistently with. Golfers who have a slow swing tempo and slow swing tempo usually prefer light or mid weight iron shafts and regular or senior flex shafts and shafts that are targeted at them because those shafts will help them hit the ball further and get the ball up in the air but part of the problem with higher handicappers is that many of them have  a very slow swing speed because their technique is bad, not because they aren’t capable of swinging the club faster, which means they can’t get the ball up in the air enough so a suitable shaft can help them with that but golf is hard and learning a good golf swing takes time and effort but once golfers improve their swings, either by teaching themselves or through lessons (which I plan to write a guide about) they will no longer have a slow swing speed problem and they can prioritise a shaft that helps them be more consistent, rather than hit it further or with a a higher launch angle.

What normally happens when getting custom fit for irons in regards to iron shafts is that the fitter will start you out with the ‘stock’ shaft that come with the iron clubheads that you are trying or want to try. The stock shaft is just a particular shaft that the clubhead brand has chosen to come with the irons if you were buying a standard spec iron set in a golf shop ‘off the rack’. For example, for the latest set of Titleist T200 irons in 2024 the stock shaft is the True Temper AMT black in either regular or stiff flex. It would be possible to buy the T200 irons with other shafts such as KBS Tour or virtually any other iron shaft available but it would need to be done as a custom fit option. 

If you don’t like the stock shafts or even if you do like them your fitter may suggest to try another shaft. I would suggest to ask what weight the shafts are that you were trying and if you found the clubs too heavy or too light for your liking you could ask to try a heavier or lighter shaft.Whenever you do find a shaft you like and are performing well with you could then ask to try different shafts in that same weight range in order to try and find other shafts that you like, which will give you more options to choose from when you are looking at second hand iron sets on eBay afterwards. I also recommend asking to try your most preferred shaft in the different flexes available to just double check that you know what the best flex option is for you in that shaft. 

I advise to make a note of or take a photo of shaft labels of the specific shafts (and the flex) that you like the most during your fitting/ performing best with and then I would advise to save yourself hundreds of pounds and buy a second hand iron set on eBay afterwards that have one of your preferred iron shafts by doing an eBay search for ‘golf irons’ plus that specific shaft. For example, ‘golf irons Dynamic gold 120 S300 stiff’. It would be safest to choose an iron set that have shafts that you already know you like or as an alternative you could choose irons that have shafts which are of very similar weight and the same flex, but this will be a higher risk option because you may not like how that shaft feels or performs for you even though it’s the same weight. You may need to use google to look up the weight of any iron shafts that you see in second hand irons advertised on eBay.

You could also take a photo of your most preferred clubheads at your custom fitting session to help you later when you are looking at second hand irons on eBay. It may be helpful to take a photo of the back of one of the clubheads just to make a note of the clubhead model but also a photo of the 7 iron clubhead behind the ball (like in my photos) because this will help you later when you are trying to find a set of similar second hand irons on eBay . Most sellers on eBay do not take photos of the clubheads behind the ball so you could do a google or youtube search of any specific iron model that you find on eBay to try and find a review that shows you what the clubheads look like in the address position. Pay attention to how big the clubheads are (relative to the size of the ball) and also how much offset there is and compare this to the photo you took at your custom fitting.

The most popular iron shaft on the PGA tour is True Temper Dynamic Gold which weighs between 127 and 132 grams depending on the flex. This is at the heavier end of iron shaft weight and is a heavier iron shaft than most amateur golfers like but I think it’s worth trying at your custom fitting session just to see if you find it too heavy or not and if it isn’t, it’s worth trying other iron shafts in the 120+ gram weight range. When you are trying iron shafts at your fitting, go with your first instincts on this when you first try a shaft. You will swing a club and think that it feels too heavy or too stiff etc and you won’t like it. It may be because the shaft is not targeted at you swing speed or tempo. Some golfers will be much more sensitive than others in how much of a difference they actually notice between different iron shafts and how much of a difference a ‘suitable’ or ‘unsuitable’ shaft actually makes to their shots. This is partly why I think its worth trying many different iron shafts at your fitting, to see whether different shafts make much of a difference to your shots. You may be told at your fitting that it’s best to not try many options but your fitting is your best opportunity to try many shafts conveniently in the one place and you don’t know until you try. This may save you time and money later if you buy irons on eBay and find that the shafts don’t suit you. I have watched youTube videos of Bryson Dechembeau using children's clubs and obviously nothing about those clubs suit him but he is so talented that he could play well with any irons with any shafts. With the kids clubs he has to adjust his stance and slow down his swing speed and swing tempo in order to hit good shots. Bryson normally has a very fast swing speed and tempo and most amateur golfers do not swing the club anywhere near as fast as he does but I don’t think that most amateur golfers are good at tweaking their swings if the shafts are not suitable for them, particularly if they are nervous, so ideally you want to pick shafts that are suitable for your current swing rather than try and change your swing speed and tempo to try and suit the shafts.

3. VALUE FOR MONEY IN SECOND HAND GOLF CLUBS AND WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR

If you are buying any second hand irons and wedges, I think the clubs that are the best value for money are the clubs that have clubfaces that are in very good condition (ie the clubs have not been used that much). The less the clubs have been used the sharper the grooves will be. Grooves on irons and wedges gradually get less sharp over time after hitting lots of golf balls. Sharp grooves will give you the highest and most consistent backspin levels possible which is important when you want to stop the ball quickly, which most often is when you are using your wedges and short irons. 

A big problem with buying second hand golf clubs online is that photos can be deceptive. You can’t see the clubs in person so you have to rely on the seller’s photos to let you know what condition the clubfaces are in. I have learned that if photos are not taken very close up to the clubfaces, at the right angle and in good lighting, the photos will not properly show clubface wear and stone chips. For a set of irons, if a photo shows all of the clubfaces together in the one photo the camera is not close enough to any of the clubfaces to properly show up clubface wear and stone chips. It will give you an idea of the condition of the clubfaces but it won’t give you the full picture. You will see examples of this if you look at some of my listings for irons and compare the photo of all the clubfaces together in the one photo to the close up shots of each clubface.

I find the value of second hand golf clubs hard to predict because the price someone is willing to pay for them can vary a lot from golfer to golfer but in general, the market value of second hand golf clubs is down to a mixture of club condition (in particular the clubfaces) and how old the clubs are, relative to the price of what new clubs cost of the same model/ equivalent model.

Many golfers will assume or think that newer golf clubs must be better or perform better than older ones or some golfers will just want the latest clubs even if they don’t think they are actually better. This makes older golf clubs worth less to many people than newer ones but many golfers will prioritise condition, not the age of the clubs so clubs in good condition will be worth more to many people than clubs in bad condition. The older the clubs are, the less likely they are to be in good condition though because people have had more time to use them but this is not always the case. Sometimes people will buy new golf clubs, keep them for many years but rarely use them and then sell them.

The top brands of clubheads release a new range of irons every two years or so with minor tweaks made. Brands may tell you about all the improvements they have made to try and get you to buy the latest clubs but these changes I think will be very minor and are mostly cosmetic changes, rather than actual changes in performance which is very hard to prove without robot testing which I suspect they are either not doing or are doing but are not making the results of their robot testing available to the public because the new clubs are not any better than the older ones, other than the worn groove issue for second hand wedges and irons. An interesting fact is that in 1999, David Duval (former world number one who had a short time at the top of the game) shot 59 on a par 72 course that measured 6950 yards at the time, so it’s possible to shoot a crazy low score using golf clubs that would now be regarded as really old but I assume that he was likely using nearly new irons and wedges for that time, in which case the grooves would have been sharp.

If you buy new irons you should also get a warranty in case something goes wrong with the irons but irons are built to last many years so it’s very unlikely that you would actually need a warranty for a new set of irons but some sellers of second hand golf clubs also give a warranty as well, but the warranty may not last as long. I give a 12 month warranty for my second hand iron sets. 

If you are curious as to what could go wrong with a set of irons, between the ages of around 14 to 17 I had used a set of around 15 year old Lynx irons on a regular basis that were my Dad’s old clubs that he had previously used for many years and during those few years the one big problem that occurred with the clubs was the 4 iron clubhead came off the end of the shaft after hitting a random full shot from the fairway. I paid my club pro to get the club re-shafted with a new shaft and that was the only thing that went wrong with those irons for the three or so years that I used the clubs. I can’t properly remember but from memory the steel shafts had significant rust/ light pitting and the rusting at the bottom of the shaft was very likely the cause of the clubhead separating from the shaft but you can avoid shaft rusting by drying shafts with a towel after you get home from playing golf in the rain. I would also recommend cleaning and drying the clubheads as well to avoid clubhead rusting and to make sure that your golf bag has fully dried before putting clubs back into your bag. Keeping your clubs in a dry room of your house, rather than in a moist garage will make sure the clubs stay dry. 

The grooves were very worn on the Lynx irons before I ever started using them because my Dad regularly used the clubs for many years before I started to play with them. I played at a firm links course so I had to intentionally land the ball short of every green to play for the ball to run out and it wasn’t until I got new irons in 2010 and saw how quickly the ball was stopping in comparison to my old Lynx irons that I realised how worn the grooves actually were. The grooves on my irons had the new ‘V’ grooves that came in 2009/2010 as well but the grooves were sharp because they were brand new clubs. The ‘V’ grooves, which produce less backspin than the old square grooves, particularly from the semi rrough and good lies in the rough were brought in on all irons and wedges made after 2009 because golf’s governing bodies thought that pro golfers were not getting punished enough for missing fairways because golfers could still stop the ball quickly on greens when hitting from the semi rough/ good lies in the rough, so you would actually be an advantage if you buy a set of irons or wedges (in good condition ie sharp grooves) made in 2008 or earlier compared to any iron set made after 2009. However, irons and wedges with the old square grooves are illegal in professional tournaments and elite level amateur competitions such as the British Amateur but they are still legal for normal and inter club competitions.   

For Drivers, woods and hybrids or putters I don’t think you are at any significant advantage performance wise by using the latest equipment so my advice would be to go for older models to get value for money. However, clubs with adjustable hosels (drivers, woods and hybrids) first came out around 2010 which allow you to quickly change the loft and lie angle of the club to help you adjust your ball flight so if you buy a club before that time the club will not have that feature.

Considering second hand iron sets that you are looking at on eBay, my advice would be to think about what price the clubs are worth to you, compared to what the latest new equivalent model of irons would cost you. You could do a search on eBay for the same iron model to see what other sellers are selling the clubs at but as mentioned previously, the condition of the clubs could vary significantly so you aren’t comparing like with like. The shafts in other iron sets could be different as well which may not be suitable for you. 

If you buy any iron set (new or second hand), use them frequently and sell them after a number of years, you will very likely have to sell them for less than you paid for them. There’s really no way to avoid that but if you can buy a suitable second hand iron set for your golf game (that’s in good condition) for much less than what the latest new equivalent irons cost, you will have saved yourself a lot of money.

If you are someone who does want a brand new iron set, you can sometimes get a much better deal if you can buy a new set that isn’t one of the latest ones. If golf shops (both physical and online) have not sold all of the previous models the price will often come down to try and shift them before the new range comes out. The previous models will be significantly cheaper than the latest ones, often by hundreds of pounds but you may only be able to get them with the ‘stock’ shafts which may not be what you want.

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4. DIFFERENT IRONS AVAILABLE AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THEM

There are three different ‘types’ of golf irons available:

1. Cavity back irons
2. Bladed irons (or ‘blades’)
3. Muscle back irons

Cavity back irons: 

A cavity back iron is one that has a hollow section in the back of the club. This removes mass from the centre of the clubface and distributes it to the outside edges of the clubhead, which provides lots of forgiveness. ‘True’ cavity back irons look quite chunky behind the ball i.e they have big clubfaces, thick toplines and will also likely have a lot of offset (offset is how far the leading edge of the clubface is to the right hand side of the hosel for a right handed golfer looking at the club in the address position). Cavity back irons will have a significant amount of offset because it makes it easier to square the clubface at impact and most amateur golfers either fade or slice the golf ball, particularly higher handicappers.

Since cavity back irons are so forgiving, you can hit the ball out of the toe or the heel of the clubface and you should find it difficult to tell where on the clubface you made contact just based on the feel or sound of the ball off the face, apart from if the ball didn’t go quite as far as expected. However, if you thin the ball or hit it heavy, you should be able to tell as soon as you hit it.

All irons that are regarded as ‘game improvement irons’ (which are aimed at mid to high handicappers) are cavity back irons.

Bladed irons:

Bladed irons (or ‘blades’) are traditional, ‘old school’ looking irons with a very thin top-down look and small sweet spot. The clubfaces of bladed irons will also be smaller than cavity back irons. A blade sounds great when you strike the ball out of the centre of the clubface but it will be very obvious when the centre of the clubface is missed because it won’t feel or sound the same. Off-centre shots also result in a larger loss of distance and loss of accuracy compared to cavity back irons.

Hardly anyone actually uses true blade irons anymore because they are so unforgiving. Some pro golfers and very low handicap golfers that consistently hit the ball out of the centre of the clubface may choose to use blades because of either looks, feel and because many people think that blades give the most control over trajectory and shot shape (draws or fades), although many people disagree about that (more on that further below with a good youTube video).

Muscle back irons:

Muscle back irons also get called ‘blades’ by many people but they are not the same. A muscle back iron will have a thicker base and sole than a blade. The increased mass in the back of a muscle back iron gives the club more forgiveness on off centre hits compared to a blade but muscle back irons and bladed irons look nearly identical to each other to the golfer when the clubs are in the address positon. Muscle back irons and blades both have that thin top-down look which most good players like the look of and the clubfaces are smaller than on cavity back irons. A muscle back iron is essentially the modern version of a blade.

Even though muscle back irons offer less forgiveness than cavity back irons, many golfers like that the reduced forgiveness provides great feedback. What this means is that the low levels of forgiveness of muscleback irons will make it obvious to you when you hit the ball out of the toe or heel by a significant amount, based on the feel and the sound of the ball off the face.

Confusing points on muscle back and cavity back irons:

The top brands of clubheads release a range of irons every two years or so which will feature four to six different clubhead models. At one end will be a set of ‘true’ muscle back irons and at the other end will be a set of ‘true’ cavity back irons and the irons in the middle of those two extremes and will have varying levels of forgiveness, clubface size, topline thickness and offset. Some of these iron models I would describe as a sort of muscle back/ cavity back hybrid. For example, Titleist are one brand of clubheads that bring out a set of irons every two years which they call ‘CB’ which stands for cavity back. The Titleist CB irons look very much like musclebacks to the golfer when the clubs are in the address position but they have a small cavity in the back for increased forgiveness compared to the Titleist ‘MB’ (muscleback) irons. The Titleist CB irons are not really true or proper cavity back irons. Other brands will sell something similar and could get called either muscle backs or cavity backs by the brand. These clubs would all be aimed at good golfers and tour pros who want muscleback irons that are a bit more forgiving. They also could have a little bit more offset and slightly bigger clubfaces than muscleback irons as well. (That’s the case with the Titleist CB’s compared to MB’s but it’s a very small difference.)

Some cavity back irons will actually look like muscle back irons when you look at the back of the clubheads, (such as the Taylormade P790’s) but these clubs do actually have a cavity in the backs of them, ie part of the clubhead is hollow but you just can’t see it. So sometimes when you are looking at second hand iron sets on eBay you will need to use google to find out if the irons are cavity backs or not. 

Mark Crossfield did a youTube video called: 

‘GOLF CLUB MYTHS - CAVITY OR BLADED IRONS WORKABLE TEST’ 

(Please do a youTube search for that if you would like to watch it). In this video he and other good golfers compared a ‘game improvement’ cavity back iron to a muscle back iron when they were trying to work the ball. Both clubs in their test had the same loft (31 degrees) and they also had the same shaft. What they found was that they were getting near identical results with both clubs when they were trying to hit draws and fades, as well as hitting the ball high and low.

Cavity back irons versus muscle back irons- which should you use?

If you are someone who wants as much forgiveness as possible in your irons and this is your top priority, then ‘game improvement’ cavity back irons are your best choice. One potential problem though I think with game improvement irons are that in most cases the ‘stock’ (most common) shafts in them are either light weight steel or graphite shafts which I think are actually lighter than ideal for many golfers because in general, light weight shafts make it harder to find the centre of the clubface and hit the ball solid compared to heavier weight shafts, although this is just my opinion based on my own past golfing experience. The lighter the iron shaft is, the faster you should be able to swing it which most often makes it more difficult to hit the ball solid and your bad shots are bigger misses. How light is too light and how heavy is too heavy will vary from golfer to golfer so without trying iron shafts of different weights out you won’t know what shaft weight is most suited for you. Please read my guide on custom fitting elsewhere on this listing for more information about this and how to best use a custom fitting session when your aim is to buy a second hand set of irons afterwards.

(Lots of golfers have become too concerned with distance and I think that is why the top brands of clubheads are all using light weight shafts as the stock shafts in game improvement irons. It is possible to get heavier weight shafts in game improvement irons but you have to pay extra to get these shafts as a custom fit option when buying a new set of irons, which most golfers aren’t doing so most of the second hand ‘game improvement’ cavity back irons on eBay will have light to midweight shafts, ie under 120 grams.

If your priority in a set of irons is great feel and feedback and you hit the ball well and often out of the middle of the clubface and you also like a thin top-down look in your irons then go for a set of either muscle back irons or a set of the muscle back/ cavity back hybrids that have the features of both.

Extra points:

Golf is part mental and I think that if a golfer believes that the irons they are using are forgiving on off-centre hits then that belief can give the golfer more confidence and that confidence can make it more likely that they will make a good swing and hit a good shot. If a golfer believes that the irons they are using are not forgiving then that belief can scare a golfer a bit which can make it more likely that they will have negative thoughts during a swing and therefore more likely to make a bad swing and hit a bad shot. This is a sort of placebo effect so based on that, I think that many golfers will perform better with either cavity back muscle back hybrid irons or full on cavity back game improvement irons not only because the irons are more forgiving, but because a golfer believes they are more forgiving. This placebo effect may also be bigger when a golfer is nervous.

The clubheads you choose in your irons should be mainly decided by how much forgiveness you want on off centre hits. However, it’s really hard to properly compare the forgiveness levels of different iron clubheads on off-centre hits without the use of a golf robot that can strike the ball on the exact same point on a clubface, time after time. I am very unsure as to how big the difference in forgiveness levels actually is between a muscleback iron and game improvement cavity back iron, but I suspect that it’s made out to be more than it actually is. At the time of writing this the only golf robot testing I can find on youTube or online is when ‘2nd swing’ did robot testing to compare forgiveness levels on off-centre hits amongst different ‘muscle back/ cavity back hybrid’ irons. The problem with this video is that they were only comparing irons from different brands that were aimed at good players, so the forgiveness levels for distance were pretty much the same for the different irons in the test, although some were significantly straighter than others on off-centre hits. I would be interested to see this test done with game improvement irons versus muscle back irons which they may do at some point. For anyone interested in watching that youtube video, please do a youTube search for ‘ping robot testing data’ and its the first youTube result.

(To compare the forgiveness levels for the different irons in that test, what you need to do is compare the carry distances on the off-centre hits versus the carry distances in the centre hits. This is the only way to properly compare the different irons since the loft of a seven iron varies from one brand to another. For example, for the T100 seven iron (as shown at the 8:50 mark in the video) the average of the centre hits look like they were carrying close to 144.5 yards and the average of the ‘centre toe’ shots were carrying close to 131.5 yards. This would mean that the centre toe shots were carrying 91.003% of the distance of the centre shots (131.5/144.5 x100). This percentage is very close to all of the different iron models tested in that video.)

Many amateur golfers will like the idea of using clubs that their favourite pro golfers use, even if the clubs are not aimed at them. If scoring is not your priority then that is completely fine to do because it’s your money you are spending so I would advise to get the set of irons you want but bear in mind that most pros are using irons that are not forgiving so you will be punished for off-centre hits.

Interesting fact on a tour pro choosing to use game improvement irons:

Ben Curtis won a PGA tour event in 2012 using Titleist 712 AP1 irons in 4-PW which were Titleist’s ‘game improvement’ cavity back cast irons at the time, aimed at high handicappers, so this proves that even a tour pro can use game improvement irons. It’s very rare though for a tour pro to choose to use game improvement irons for all of their irons but occasionally pros will use them in their longer irons. Some people might say that Ben Curtis wasn’t very good but to be fair to him, he won $13.8 million on the PGA tour which puts him 144th on the all time career money list and he also won the 2003 British Open.

Forged versus cast irons:

Golf irons can be either forged or cast.

A forged golf iron is a club in which the clubhead is made out of one solid block of metal. The metal is carved into shape and the clubhead is one solid piece of material. 

A cast iron is an iron that is made from a mold. Hot liquid metal is poured into the mold into the desired shape of clubhead and the result is a cast iron golf club.

Most irons aimed at good golfers such as muscle backs and the muscleback/ cavity back hybrids are forged and nearly all ‘game improvement’ cavity back irons aimed at mid to high handicappers are cast. 

Forged irons are made with a softer metal than cast irons so many golfers would say that you get a ‘softer’ feel when hitting balls with a forged iron compared to a cast iron, which many golfers like. However, in a youTube video done by Mark Crossfield titled 

‘FORGED OR CAST GOLF CLUBS WHAT IS FEEL’ 

Mark and the testers very much question that you can actually tell the difference between a forged and cast iron based only on how the club feels when the clubface makes contact with the ball. It’s likely that any difference in ‘feel’ between a forged and cast iron is down to the sound of the ball off the face.

Cast irons are cheaper to make than forged irons which I understand is why game improvement irons are cheaper than forged irons.

Cast irons are also more durable than forged irons. The harder metal of cast irons means that they are more resistant to dents and stone chips. Forged irons can knock against each other in the golf bag during a round of golf and also during transport and this results in many very small dents in the clubheads, which is known as ‘bag clatter’. This can happen to cast irons as well but in general more force is needed to create the same dent in a cast iron compared to a forged iron so cast irons don’t get quite ‘beat up’ as much. ‘Bag clatter’ can be mostly avoided by using iron head covers, (although many golfers think that using iron headcovers is uncool) but a lack of bag clatter could maybe make the re-sale value of your irons higher if you sell the clubs in future.

Some golfers think that forged irons give them more consistent backspin numbers compared to cast irons which would often be a main reason as to why a good golfer would choose a forged irons over cast irons, but as mentioned above, Ben Curtis won that PGA tour event using cast irons and there are other pro golfers using cast irons so I would question whether forged irons actually do give more consistent backspin numbers compared to cast irons but again, with any of these theories it’s hard to properly test them out without golf robot  testing because any difference in backspin numbers between each shot could be down to the golfer such as exact strike location etc and not because the club is forged or cast. There are golfers on tour that use forged irons and there will be some that use cast irons but the majority will be choosing to use forged.

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6. THE BEST ADVICE ON HOW TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE BOUGHT A SET OF COUNTERFEIT IRONS ONLINE:

Key points:

1. The loft and lie angles of counterfeit irons will very likely be irregular. The swing weights will almost certainly be irregular.

2. The easiest and quickest way to identify counterfeit irons is to measure all of the loft angles. Measuring and calculating the swing weights is better but it takes more time. The ‘more detail on measurements’ part of the listing explains how you can accurately measure loft angles and swing weights. You can do both without any expensive equipment.

3. You can watch a good youTube video on counterfeit irons if you do a youTube search for ‘online fakes project left’ and watch the first video on the results page.

I normally only buy and sell iron sets so I can’t properly comment for any other golf clubs being sold on eBay but from my experience of buying and selling lots of iron sets, I’m pretty sure that the majority that are being sold on eBay are NOT counterfeit but unfortunately as long as people keep making counterfeit golf clubs it’s very likely that some will end up getting sold on eBay. Sellers on eBay may actually be completely unaware that the clubs they are counterfeit because they bought the clubs off someone else second hand.

I think that some businesses who sell new and second hand iron sets deliberately try and make counterfeit golf clubs out to be a far bigger problem than they actually are in an attempt to try and get you to buy irons off them by scaring you into thinking that if you were to buy a set of irons from a random seller on eBay, there’s a good chance that they would be counterfeit, which is not true. I have spent time and have fully researched this topic because I want to be as sure as possible that no one buys a counterfeit set of irons from me and this is what I have learned:

Some counterfeit irons are obviously fake just by looking at them or even by just looking at photos of them. The clubs just won’t look right and they will look ‘fake’ but some counterfeit irons do look really good and are much harder to spot just by looking at them without carefully looking at the clubs and comparing them side by side with known genuine irons of the same model in person and/or measuring the loft angles of all the irons in the set or measuring and calculating the swing weights. In many cases you won’t have known genuine irons of the same model to compare the clubs to so I think that measuring the loft angles or finding out the swing weights is better.

The goal of people making counterfeit golf clubs are to make clubs that look as much as possible like the real thing as cheaply as possible so that they scam people out of their money by tricking people into thinking that they are buying genuine clubs. I highly doubt the counterfeiters care about how their clubs performs and therefore are not spending the time and money to make them perform like the real thing. For example, I saw on a youTube video that a club pro measured the loft and lie angles of all of the irons in a set of fake Titleist 718 AP2 irons that he had got the hold of and the 5 iron had a stronger loft than the 4 iron and the 9 iron had a stronger loft than the 8 iron, so if you were to use that set of irons you would obviously likely hit the 5 iron further than the 4 iron and the 9 iron further than the 8 iron. For anyone who wants to watch the youtube video, please do a youtube search for ‘online fakes projectleft’ and it’s the first youtube result. The counterfeit irons in that video are an example of what I think are a ‘good’ set of counterfeits in that the counterfeiters have done a good job at making the clubheads look like the real thing. If you were just looking at the clubheads of the counterfeit set on their own without comparing them to a genuine set it would be hard to know for sure that they were fake just by looking at them but in this particular set of counterfeit irons the most obvious visual giveaway are the clear and obvious fake looking Project X shaft labels which will look fake to anyone who has recently seen genuine Project X shaft labels because they look really different.

The main reason I started measuring the loft and lie angles of all the irons that I sell is because I think this is the best, quickest and easiest way to identify a counterfeit set of irons when you don’t have another set of irons of the exact same model (that you know are definitely genuine) to compare them to. I actually think this is a better method of identifying fakes than visually comparing two sets of irons side by side because I have seen photos online of a ‘good looking’ counterfeit Titleist AP3 5 iron versus a genuine Titleist AP3 5 iron side by side* and when I first looked at the photos the differences between the two clubheads looked very subtle to me and were not clear and obvious which scared me a bit when I first looked at them but since you can quickly and accurately measure the loft angles of the irons that would be a more clear cut way to know that the clubs were fake if the loft angles were up the left. However, measuring the loft angles is not a completely foolproof method of identifying counterfeit irons because the loft and lie angles on irons often gradually shift a bit over time with use (particularly lie angles) but not to the extent that the 9 iron becomes a stronger loft than the 8 iron etc. Someone could also potentially take a counterfeit set of irons to a club pro or someone who has a loft/lie machine and get them to adjust the loft and lie angles of the clubs. I think it is unlikely that someone would take the time and spend the money to do that but it’s possible. There’s also the issue of many club pros being super cautious and only willing to adjust loft or lie angles by a small amount out of fear of breaking clubs so they may not even be willing to adjust the loft angles to what they should be. I don’t think that measuring and calculating the swing weights of irons is necessary to identity counterfeit irons but if you would like to be as sure as possible that the irons are not counterfeit then I would recommend doing so. If the counterfeiters can’t even get the loft angles right, they almost certainly won’t get the swing weights right. It would also be almost impossible for anyone to get the swing weights right after the clubs have been made. If the swing weights are very irregular you would need to add significant weight to either end of the golf clubs through adding lead tape either on the clubheads or on the shafts or by installing grips of different weights, in order to alter the swing weight of any of the clubs and you would be able to see if that has been done just by looking at the clubs. 

(*Please do a google search for ‘ Titleist AP3 golfclubbrokers’ to see the side by side photos of the genuine versus counterfeit AP3 5 iron. In that particular counterfeit club the most obvious giveaways to me from just looking at the photos are the longer than normal ferrule (for a Titleist 718 iron) and bigger than normal KBS tour shaft label that also has different font. Please note that sometimes people get irons reshafted and use ferrules which did not originally come with the iron set so in those situations genuine irons could have ferrules that are the ‘wrong’ length.)

Counterfeiters often put serial numbers on golf clubs to try and make them look authentic and not all genuine iron sets will have serial numbers so looking at serial numbers is not a good way to identify counterfeit golf clubs.

At the time of writing this I have measured the loft and lie angles of at least 500 second hand iron sets and on only four of these occasions were there irregular loft angles of any irons in the set i.e. the 9 iron having a stronger loft than the 8 iron etc. One was a set of Titleist 695 mb’s that actually looked fake to me before I even measured the loft and lie angles but the loft angles (and actually the lie angles as well) were both irregular. One was a set of ‘Taylormade R11 irons’ that actually had the same dodgy looking Project X shaft labels as on the fake Titleist AP2 irons in that projectleft youTube video. Other than from the shaft labels I could not tell that the clubs were fake just by looking at them but I did not visually compare them side by side against another set of Taylormade R11 irons. I recently got hold of two new sets of ‘Taylormade P790 irons’ in 4-PW which I thought were counterfeit just by looking at the clubs but I was not certain. 

I measured the loft and lie angles of both sets and sure enough they were irregular on both sets.

For anyone that is interested to know, I measured the loft angles on set 1 to be: 

(in order from 4-PW)

23.9, 22.5,  31.8, 30.5, 39.7, 38.5, 44.4

For set 2:

23.0, 22.0, 27.7, 28.9, 37.9, 38.2, 45.5

I measured the lie angles on set 1 to be:

61.7, 61.5, 61.4, 61.8, 63.2, 62.5, 63.2.

Set 2:

61.0, 61.6, 61.6, 61.1, 61.8, 62.9, 63.0

I measured the club lengths of all of the irons in one of the sets and they were very close to what they should have been. For the 2nd set I just put the clubs over the edge of the box that I was using at the time, like I do when taking photos and none of the clubs had irregular lengths but I didn’t actually measure them with a metal ruler.

I am no longer in possession of either of those iron sets and I have only since found out that you can accurately measure and calculate swing weights of golf clubs without using any expensive equipment or else I would have done that for those two iron sets as well.

You can measure loft and lie angles on irons (and wedges) yourself using a digital inclinometer but the club needs to be set up properly and you need to know what you’re doing to measure them accurately enough to identify fakes. Please see the ‘more detail on measurements’ part of the listing if you would like more information on how to do this. I think it is actually easier to accurately measure and calculate the swing weight of a golf club but it takes more time.

If you do buy a second hand iron set on eBay (or any other golf club) and later discover that they are counterfeit you are completely covered by eBay’s money back guarantee and you will get a guaranteed refund from eBay if you open a case within 30 days of the delivery date, or the estimated delivery date (whichever is later) but it needs to be done within the 30 days to be covered.

7. Cleaning irons and wedges/ how to keep them in the best possible condition and keep the re-sale value as high as possible when the time comes to sell them:

Cleaning golf irons and wedges and drying them afterwards is most important to do after you get home from playing golf in either the rain or on wet grass, because if you don’t keep the clubs dry then rust will form on the clubs. Cleaning irons and wedges after playing with them will keep them in the best possible condition and will mean you will get longer out of them and it will also keep the re-sale value as high as possible in case you decide to sell them again in future.

(In my opinion) this is the best method to clean golf clubheads and faces:

First buy a deep bucket (if you don’t already have one) and then fill with cold or luke warm water (or you could also use a sink.) The reason I advise not using hot water is because I have read that if you get hot water on the ferrules it can cause them to become loose.

Other things you’ll need:

1. Sponge (or a facecloth or small towel)
2. Cheap or old toothbrush (or brush from a groove cleaner but not the metal brushes because they will likely score clubfaces).
3. A dry towel.

Steps:

1. Take a golf club and dunk the clubhead into the bucket of water.
2. Use the sponge etc to give the clubhead and clubface a rubdown to remove as much dirt as possible. If there is a cavity in the back of the clubhead make sure you get in there with the sponge and use the toothbrush if necessary to remove any dirt.
3. Remove the clubhead from the bucket and then use the toothbrush to brush back and forward along the grooves to remove as much dirt as possible.
4. Dunk the clubhead back into the bucket and move it around to give it a good rinse.
5. Remove the clubhead from the water and check that all dirt has been removed from the clubhead and if not then take the toothbrush and go over any missed parts.
6. Repeat step 4 if necessary.
7. Dry the clubhead and clubface with a towel, making sure you get into the cavity in the back of the clubhead (if there is one) in case any water is trapped in there.
8. Dry the shaft with the towel as well, particularly if its steel which will prevent rust from forming on the shaft which would lead to pitting (tiny holes forming in the shaft).
9. Make sure your golf bag is dry before putting any of your clubs back inside it. If you were playing in the rain you may have to turn it upside down and leave it to dry in the garage etc. for at least 12 hours.
10. Repeat these steps with the rest of your irons and wedges. Empty and refill your bucket with more water as necessary whenever the water inside your bucket gets too dirty.
11. Store your golf clubs in a dry room of your house. Sometimes garages can have moist air which can cause the shafts and clubheads to rust.

8. Cleaning golf grips/ how to get longer out of them before the need to replace them:

(In my opinion) this is the best method to clean golf grips:

First buy a deep bucket (if you don’t already have one) and then fill with cold water. (You could also use a deep sink.)

Other things you’ll need:

    1. A facecloth or very small towel.

    2. A dry towel.

Method:

1. Take a golf club and stick a golf tee in the hole at the end of the grip.
2. Dunk the whole of the golf grip into the bucket of water and make sure all of the grip gets wet. 
3. Remove the grip from the water and then use either a cloth, small towel or your hand to give the grip a rub down.
4. Dunk the grip back into the bucket and move it around to give it a good rinse.
5. Remove the grip from the bucket and then remove the golf tee from the end of the grip.
6. Dry the grip with a towel (and dry the shaft as well in case any part got wet).
7. Leave the club against a wall etc and ideally give it a number of hours to fully dry before putting the club back into your golf bag.
8. Repeat this with all of your golf clubs.

(Putting the golf tee in the hole at the end of the grip stops water getting inside the shafts and causing rusting).

Some people like to use some dish washing liquid or liquid hand soap when cleaning golf clubs and golf grips but I don’t like doing so because I don’t think it’s necessary and I’m also concerned about accidentally not rinsing it all off and leaving clubs or grips feeling a bit soapy.

I’m sorry if this is all obvious or sounds patronising to whoever is reading this but I am being specific as to what exactly I do in case anyone finds it helpful.

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1. DIY LIE ANGLE CUSTOM FITTING FOR IRONS AND WEDGES AND WHY THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT:

 The lie angle of a golf club is the angle between the shaft and the sole of the clubhead when the club is in the address position. Getting the correct lie angles in your irons and wedges for your own individual stance and golf swing is very important because you need to have the sole of the clubheads square to the ground at impact (or as close as possible) which is very important in order to hit well struck iron shots out of the middle of the clubface and at the target. If a clubhead is either signifcantly toe-up or toe-down at impact then it will make it more difficult to hit the ball out of the middle of the clubface, the clubface will be pointing offline and it will also be harder to strike the ball well. The good thing is that the lie angle of any second hand iron or wedge can be quickly and easily altered by a club pro or anyone who has a loft/lie machine who knows what they are doing (more on that further below).

In my opinion Ping give the best information on custom fitting for lie angles and if you have not been custom fit for lie angle before and are not sure of what lie angle specification you need in your irons and wedges then what you can easily do yourself at home (along with the help of a friend) is the first step of a Ping custom fitting session. It’s based solely on your height and ‘wrist to floor’ measurement when you are standing upright with your arms hanging down naturally by your sides. The results of this will give you a good estimate as to what lie angle specification you need and according to Ping this will get you within plus or minus one degree of the actual lie angle specification required for you in your irons and wedges 75% of the time and it will get you within plus or minus two degrees 95% of the time. A one or two degree change in shaft angle sounds very small but I have read that a one degree change in the angle of the shaft actually corresponds to a ten degree change in the angle of the sole of the clubhead, which is significant.

What you need:

1. A tape measure.
2. Ping’s colour code chart (which can be found by doing a google image search).

Steps involved:

1. Wear normal, non golf shoes (that don’t have deep heels) and go to a hard surface.
2. Stand upright as if you are getting your height measured, with your arms hanging naturally down by your sides.
3. Get a friend to measure the vertical (straight up and down) distance between one of your wrists and the floor in inches using a tape measure, ideally to the nearest quarter inch. (You want your friend to measure from where the hand meets the wrist, i.e. the ‘wrist crease’, straight down to the floor.)
4. Have your friend take a second measurement, this time using the wrist of your other hand incase you have arms that are different lengths.
5. If the two measurements are different, add them both together and divide by two to give an average.
6. Type ‘Ping colour code chart’ into google images and look at the first image result.
7. Look at the left hand side of that chart and match up your ‘wrist to floor measurement’ with a colour code by looking horizontally across from the measurement.

Just as an example, if your wrist to floor measurement is 35 inches then that would correspond to the blue colour code which you can see is 1 degree upright. This would mean that regardless of what height you are, if you were to use irons which are standard length then there’s a 75% chance that you will need your lie angles to be somewhere between standard and 2 degrees upright. If you were to use irons that are either longer or shorter than standard length then the lie angle specification would need to be adjusted slightly to compensate for the increased or decreased length of the clubs.

Ping would also be taking your height into consideration when using that chart to give club length recommendations for your set of irons. It’s not super important that your irons are a certain length as long as the lie angles are adjusted to compensate. However, if the clubs are too short for you then the lie angles will need to be made very upright to compensate for the short clubs which can cause problems in a conventional golf swing. This is normally only an issue for golfers who are either very tall or for golfers who have a very tall/ upright stance. (I go into more detail about this further below).

For more information on how to use the Ping chart when taking your height into account then please do a youTube search for ‘2017 Color Code Chart Ping’ and watch the first video on the youTube result page.

Once you have used Ping’s chart to give yourself a good estimate for what lie angles you need then it would be safest to buy a set of irons with lie angles within two degrees of that specification. This is more important when buying cast irons because unfortunately many club pros will not adjust the lie angles on cast irons because they are super cautious and don’t want to be held responsible for breaking your clubs (more on that below*).

When you have bought a set of irons you can then do a very quick and easy DIY check to see whether the lie angle is right for you or not on any club that you are using. The test is very easy to do and all you need is either a good permanent marker pen or a good whiteboard marker pen. Please do a youTube search for ‘DIY lie angle check’ and watch the first youTube result by ‘50 yards longer’ which is a short, helpful video that shows you how to do it.

Please watch the youTube video first but just to add some important points to it, the method shown in the video is best done off a golf mat or off a tee when on grass. The test can be done with every iron and wedge in your bag or what you can do to save time is to to do the test with just three or four clubs such as the longest iron in your bag, a mid iron, your shortest iron and then maybe also your sand wedge or lob wedge. Based on the results of these three or four clubs your club pro can estimate what lie angle adjustments need to made for the rest of your irons and wedges in your set.

After doing that test with your clubs, look to see if the lines are going straight up the clubfaces or not and if any are not then you either need to take a photo of each clubface and make a note of which photo corresponds to what club to show your club pro later, or it may be easier to just leave the lines on your clubfaces and hand all of your irons and wedges to your pro and they should be able to make the correct lie angle adjustments for all of your irons and wedges in your bag, which usually costs around £3-5 per club. 

Instead of paying a club pro to alter the lie angles of your clubs, you can change your stance to suit the lie angles of the clubs you are using. You can do this by either standing taller during the golf swing (ie you need to have straighter legs and be less bent bent over at the waist), or you can bend your knees more and/or be more bent over at the waist because doing either of those will either raise or lower your hands at impact which will change the angle of the shaft, but changing your stance is not ideal if you like to stand a particular way but changing your stance to suit the clubs is another way to get the soles of the clubheads square to the ground at impact. If you are making changes to your stance you can always re-do that DIY test at any point to check. Please note that standing further away or closer to the golf ball will also either raise or lower your hands at impact but this will make less of a difference than changing your stance.

Extra related information:

*If your irons or wedges are ‘cast’ irons, rather than ‘forged’ then many club pros are super cautious and will not make any lie angle adjustments on them out of fear of breaking the clubs because they don’t want to be held responsible for that. You may be told that lie angles on cast irons can’t be adjusted which is completely untrue because lie angles often shift a bit on cast irons over time just from repeatedly hitting the golf clubs into the ground. (That’s what I have noticed since I started measuring lie angles on all of my second hand iron sets that I buy). I saw on YouTube that a clubmaker was able to bend the lie angle of a cast iron by 7-8 degrees before the club broke, but he said that the specific number can vary a bit between different cast irons. Some cast irons will bend more than others but by gradually adjusting the lie angle of a club you can work out how much the club will bend (or not) before it actually does break. In general, forged irons are easier to bend than cast irons so if your irons are forged you could have the irons bent to virtually any lie angle specification that any golfer would need but again some club pros are super cautious and won’t go more than two degrees in either direction.

If your club pro will not do lie angle adjustments on cast irons you will need to either ring up another club pro at a different club to find someone who will do it for you, or you may need to buy another set of irons in a different lie angle spec if the lie angles need to be adjusted by a significant amount.

Please note that many amateurs will have their hands too high at impact because of a common swing fault which will cause the clubheads all to be toe-down at impact and the results of that DIY test will indicate that you will need lie angles adjusted to be more upright but if you are getting lessons your coach will prefer you to correct the swing fault before making any adjustments to lie angles but if you are not getting lessons or making any changes to your stance or swing then I would advise having the lie angles adjusted. You could always have them adjusted again in the future if your swing or stance changes. 

Since lie angles on irons and wedges will often shift a bit just with use, some golfers who take their scoring seriously will have the lie angles of their irons and wedges checked by a club pro at least once per year and have them adjusted as needed. Players on tour could be having them checked every week or even after every round.

Ping’s colour code chart is based on a golfer who has an average stance but if you are someone who likes to stand tall at address with relatively straight legs then you will need more upright lie angles than what the chart indicates or if you like to be very bent over with bent legs then you will need flatter lie angles.

Also, ‘standard lie angles’ can vary from one brand to the other by around one or two degrees depending on what iron or wedge it is but you can still use Ping’s chart when buying irons from a different brand but you may want to compare Ping’s standard lie angles with the standard lie angles from the different brand by looking up the specs of different iron models and then adjust the lie angle recommendation as necessary.

It’s not super important that your clubs are all a certain length compared to standard and it will also also depend on your own preferences. 

In general, tall golfers and golfers with a tall/ upright stance need either clubs that are longer in length and/or more upright lie angles and golfers who are short need clubs that are shorter in length and/or lie angles which are flatter. The club lengths of irons in a typical iron set are all different and the lie angles of each iron in the set are different to compensate for the different club lengths. Some golfers who prioritise accuracy may prefer irons which are a bit shorter in length and golfers who want to hit the ball further may prefer irons which are a bit longer, because longer shafts help to increase clubhead speed, but if your short irons and wedges are too short in length it can cause problems in your swing because the shorter the club, the more upright the lie angle needs to be to compensate for the shorter club length and very upright lie angles such as five degrees+ upright can cause some problems in a conventional golf swing. Although, it’s possible to play well with irons that are very upright. Based on what I have read, Bryson Dechambeau uses irons and wedges that are all around ten degrees upright (which would be the most upright lie angles that anyone would use in their irons) and his irons and wedges are all the same length, the length of a ‘standard length’ six iron. 

I understand that throughout Bryson’s golf swing, he wants the clubhead to travel on or very close to the angle of the shaft when the club is in the address position and this is nearly impossible to do when using irons with standard lie angles, so Bryson has to make his lie angles much more upright in order to achieve this ‘one plane’ swing and then he has to stand both taller and also slightly further away from the ball than normal to accommodate the very upright lie angles of his irons and wedges.     

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2. CUSTOM FITTING ADVICE: 

(LONGER VERSION)

I have previously advised people to get custom fit for irons if they are unsure as to what iron set they should buy and also advice on how to best take advantage of a custom fitting session when your desire is to buy a second hand set of irons afterwards on eBay but I am now updating my advice. This is because I have researched the topic more and I have also realised that some club fitters’ priorities are not getting you to try out the clubhead and shaft options that they think would be best for your golf game but rather the options that would make you spend the most money. This could be because the fitter could be on commission and thinks you are going to buy a new iron set from them or the business that they work for. (For example, if the fitter is recommending you get Golf Pride MCC grips at £13 per grip then I suspect that’s probably why.) 

You may also be rushed through the fitting, especially if you don’t have to pay for it but regardless of these issues, paying to get custom fit for irons can still be very beneficial for people who play golf regularly, take their scoring seriously and are unsure as to what clubhead and shaft combination they want in their irons. This is particularly true for people who are planning to spend significant money on an iron set. (More info about this in my value for money in an iron set guide)

The main advantage of getting custom fitted for irons is the ability to hit many balls with many different clubhead and shaft options one after the other, conveniently in the one place and with a launch monitor as well. As an alternative to custom fitting you can go down the ‘trial and error’ route by buying a second hand set of irons from a seller on eBay who allows you to try the clubs out and will accept a return if the clubs don’t suit you but that will be a higher risk option compared to getting custom fit first so I would only recommend taking the trial and error route if you already have a pretty good idea of what you want. In general it costs you money every time you change your clubs so it’s good to buy a suitable iron set on your first purchase that will last you a number of years.

At a custom fitting session you should also be told what lie angle spec you need in your irons, which is very important to get right, particularly in your short irons and wedges but the lie angle on any second hand iron or wedge can be altered by a club pro so it’s not important to buy an iron set that’s already in your desired lie angle specs. You can also easily find this out for yourself without getting custom fit. I explain how to do this in my ‘DIY lie angle custom fitting guide’ elsewhere on this eBay listing.

There are different types of custom fitting available for irons and the link below is a helpful YouTube video that goes into detail about the pros and cons of each one but I will also write my own advice based on past experience of trying different clubs and shafts and also from getting custom fit for irons at a ‘free for members’ Titleist fitting day at the golf club that I was a member at.

To watch that youTube video please do a YouTube search for ‘SHOULD YOU PAY FOR A GOLF FITTING / CHOOSING THE RIGHT FITTING FOR YOU’

(The information in that video is for a US audience but it’s still relevant for people who live in other countries as well.)

 If you do get custom fit for irons then I would highly advise doing so at a time that you have been playing regular golf so that you will learn the most from it. If you get custom fit at a time that you’re not playing very often you may find that during your fitting you may be hitting the ball bad with every clubhead and shaft option that you try, which won’t help you as much when you are trying to decide between different shaft and clubhead options.

The main problem with custom fitting for iron sets and custom fitting in general is that it’s almost always only geared towards people who are buying new golf clubs afterwards. You will only be able to try out the latest, most recent clubhead options available from any given brand of clubhead. However, all of the top brands of clubheads such as Titleist, Taylormade, Callaway etc release a range of different clubheads for irons every two years or so with very minor tweaks made so it will be possible to buy a set of second hand irons on eBay afterwards for substantially less money than a new iron set would cost and they will be nearly identical or at least very similar to your most preferred clubhead and shaft combination that you tried at your custom fitting. 

The types of clubheads available for irons by any given brand will include at one end a set of a non forgiving muscle back irons aimed at the best of ball strikers (that Tiger or Rory would use) and then at the other end there will be a very chunky looking and very forgiving set of cavity back irons called ‘game improvement irons’ which are aimed at high handicappers or any golfers wanting maximum forgiveness and then there will be 2-4 sets in between those two extremes.

I would advise first reading my guide elsewhere on this eBay listing on the different clubhead options available for irons which will give you an idea as to what clubheads you may want in your irons but during your custom fitting session I would advise trying out all the different types of clubhead options available to confirm that for you.

When it comes to iron shafts, in most cases the brands that make the shafts are completely separate to the brands that make the clubheads. (Ping is one brand of clubheads that make their own iron shafts as well.) 

There are many different iron shafts available from a number of different brands (potentially too many) and the majority of these iron shafts have been available for many years so it’s possible to get almost any of the iron shafts that you would be trying at your custom fitting session in a set of older, second hand irons on eBay. 

Any set of irons by any given brand of clubhead, such as the Titleist T100 irons etc came with a ‘stock shaft’ (or maybe one of a few different stock shafts) which is a shaft chosen by the brand that will be the default shaft that will come in those irons in either regular, stiff or extra stiff flex for people who are buying irons ‘off the rack’ in a golf shop or pro shop. It would also be possible to get any of a large number of different shafts in that set of irons as well but people buying new irons would have to maybe pay extra to get their chosen shaft as a ‘custom fit’ option (depending on the value of the shaft) and in that case you will most likely have to wait longer to get the clubs as well.

With iron shafts, based on my experience of swinging many different irons with different shafts, they all feel a bit different to swing and this will be mainly down to the makeup of the particular shaft and what flex it is. What I have found is that some shafts just feel better to me than others, based on my individual swing. It’s not really the clubhead that influences the feel of the club when you swing it because a clubhead is essentially just a weight that’s attached to the end of the shaft.

The shafts that I liked the feel of the most were the ones that I thought that I could feel where the clubhead was during the golf swing and with these shafts I was able to time my swing and strike the ball the best. With other shafts I couldn’t really feel where the clubhead was during the swing the same and these were the shafts that I didn’t like and my ball striking was significantly worse with these shafts, unless I tweaked my swing a bit to suit to try and suit the shaft. From what I have read, the shafts that you will like the feel of the most and perform best with will vary from golfer to golfer depending on how you swing the golf club, because every golf swing is different.

Some people will have heard the term ‘swing weight’ which is supposed to be a measure of how heavy or light a club feels to swing, for example if you use lighter iron shafts the swing weight of the golf club decreases and if you use heavier iron shafts the swing weight increases. Weirdly, if you put on heavier grips the swing weight actually decreases. (Adding weight to the grip end of the shaft through heavier grips actually makes the club feel a bit lighter to swing.)

However, I think the swing weight concept is flawed because just for example, True Temper are a big brand of iron shafts that make iron shafts which they call Dynamic Gold ‘AMT’ tour white which stands for ascending mass technology. In these shafts there is a difference in weight of three grams between each shaft in the set, with the lightest shaft being in the longest iron and the heaviest shaft being in the PW. The ‘balance point’ in each of the shafts is adjusted so that the swing weight is supposedly the same with every iron in the set but every time I have swung every iron in a set of irons that have the Dynamic gold AMT tour white shafts the longer irons definitely feel lighter to me than the shorter irons even though they are all supposed to be the same swing weight. So based on that I would advise completely ignoring ‘swing weight’ when looking at different iron models and to consider the the shaft weight only. Most ‘good player’ iron sets will have a swing weight of D2-D3 anyway which is very similar and swing weight isn’t even a custom fit option for people who are buying a new iron set. Most game improvement irons will all have a very similar swing weight to each other as well, which is normally a bit lower than irons aimed at good players.

Another thing I want to mention about iron shafts is that contrary to what many people think and this is based on watching many of Mark Crossfield’s videos (who’s quite big on youTube), the actual difference a shaft makes from one to the next to any of the launch monitor numbers, such as launch angle or spin rate etc is very small but it’s hard to fully test this theory out without the use of a golf robot because strike location on the clubface and angle of attack of the clubhead will be changing those numbers a bit on each swing. I like Mark Crossfield’s older videos because he challenged many golf myths. Some iron shafts are ‘supposed’ to be ‘low launch, low spin’ and others ‘high launch, high spin’ etc but Mark Crossfield seriously questions as to how much of a difference the shaft is actually making to any of those numbers when he and other good golfers have compared different shafts using a launch monitor, but getting a suitable shaft in your irons for your own individual swing and preferences will still make a significant difference but it won’t be because the shaft helps you hit the ball lower or higher. It will be because some shafts will just be more suitable for your swing than others, based on how you swing the golf club and your preferences on shaft weight and flex.

Iron shafts can come in significantly different weights, from super light weight graphite shafts at 60 grams to 133 grams ‘tour/heavy weight’ and there will be at least one shaft available in virtually every 5 gram increment in between those two numbers. In general if your iron shafts are too light for you it will make it harder to consistently strike the ball out of the middle of the clubfaces, your misses left and/or right will be bigger and your bad shots will likely be really bad. These will often be especially true when you are nervous, which is definitely what I found anyway. Please note that the amount of difference a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ shaft will make to your golf shots will vary from golfer to golfer but I believe this is in general. 

Lighter shafts will allow you to swing the clubhead faster which will allow you hit the ball further but often at the cost of accuracy. How heavy is too heavy and how light is too light will vary from golfer to golfer but an important point to make is that the bulk majority of tour pros use iron shafts that are at the heavier end of iron shaft weight (which is between 120 and 133 grams in weight) because accuracy and consistency of ball striking is priority to them, not swing speed and distance. Some golfers will be so talented that it doesn’t matter what weight or flex the shafts are but I think nearly all amateur golfers are not in that category. Lighter weight shafts can be easier on the body which is something golfers with bad backs etc may need to consider and reach some sort of compromise between pain levels and scoring.

Some amateur golfers who haven’t played that much or who have bad technique will be bad regardless of shaft weight or flex or clubhead choice. Golf is a hard game and it takes some time and practice to learn how to swing a golf club well so many golfers would be better spending money on coaching to improve their golf swing before getting too concerned about head and shaft options. Golf lessons from a good teacher are not cheap though so some golfers will prefer to teach themselves from either or a combination of books, youTube videos and recording their own golf swing. This is part of the fun for some people but it will be harder on your own without the help of a good teacher.

Many golfers, once they improve and get to a certain standard will be in a better position to know or find out what shaft and clubhead option will be most suitable for them in their irons and the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ options will make more of a difference to their golf shots than a beginner golfer or high handicapper.

According to Mark Crossfield in one of his youTube videos, he thinks shaft weight is more important than flex (which I also agree with) but shaft flex can also make a shaft feel a bit heavier or lighter, just because of the flex. In general extra stiff shafts feel a bit heavier to swing and regular flex shafts feel bit lighter even if the shafts are the same weight so because of that it’s best to try out different iron shafts all in the same flex so you are comparing like with like and then once you find a shaft that you like the feel of you can ask to try out the different flexes available in that shaft.

So at your custom fitting for irons I would highly advise asking to try out shafts of different weights and see how you get on with each shaft. I would recommend asking to first try the true Temper Dynamic gold in all three flexes, regular, stiff and extra stiff. This shaft is the most popular iron shaft on tour and is also one of the cheapest as well. It weighs between 127 and 132 grams depending on the flex. If you find this shaft too heavy then ask to try a shaft which is 10 grams lighter and keep going down by 10 gram increments until you get a good idea as to what weight you like the best. There is a version of the dynamic gold shaft available in a number of different weights such as the dynamic gold 120 and dynamic gold 105 so these may be one of the shafts your fitter lets you try. Once you establish what shaft weight you like then you could ask to try different shafts of a similar weight to see if there’s another shaft that you particularly like the feel of or are performing better with. ‘True temper’ is the brand that makes that makes the dynamic gold shafts but another popular brand of iron shafts is ‘KBS’ which was created by and named after the shaft designer Kim Braly. In a youTube video he said that the original KBS shaft called the ‘KBS tour’ is the KBS shaft that fits the most golfers so I think this shaft is worth a try at your custom fitting as well and I advise trying the KBS tour shaft out fist before any other shafts by KBS. The KBS tour shaft is popular among tour pros and many amateurs and the shaft weight varies depending on the flex. The regular flex is 110 grams, the stiff flex is 120 grams and the extra stiff flex is 130 grams and it also is available in half flexes.

Your club fitter will be looking at where all your shots end up via the launch monitor when you are trying out different shafts, but you should have a good idea based purely on ‘feel’ if the shaft is to your liking or not. If a shaft feels too light for your liking etc when you swing the golf club then ask to try a different shaft until you find one that feels right or good to you.

If you come across an iron shaft that you really like and get on with at your custom fitting then it would be safest to buy a set of second hand irons afterwards on eBay with that exact same shaft and flex by doing an eBay search for that shaft, for example ‘golf irons KBS tour stiff’.  Or you could go with iron shafts that are of very similar weight and the same flex but the risk is that if you go with a different shaft that you did not try at your custom fitting then you may not like the feel of that specific shaft when you swing the clubs, even if the shafts are the exact same weight and flex.

At your custom fitting I would advise primarily going on ‘feel’ when trying to decide between different iron shafts, before anything your fitter tells you which could possibly be them trying to point you towards going for a more expensive shaft. The price of iron shafts can vary significantly and the cheapest shafts may actually be what you most prefer. (Steel shafts are cheaper than graphite). Some shafts will just feel too heavy or too stiff for your liking as soon as you swing them and I would advise discounting those right away. Certainly look at where your shots end up as well via the launch monitor when you are trying different shaft options but you will need to make sure that you are properly lining up each shot to the exact same target with every swing so that when your fitter is comparing the finishing positions of your golf shots with one shaft compared to another shaft you will have something to go on. It’s easy to forget to consistently line shots up during your fitting which will mean that you are hitting balls aimlessly in a general direction which will mean you won’t be able to really compare your performance of one shaft against another shaft if your aiming positon was actually different with every shot.

Another problem for custom fitting when you are trying different iron shafts is that you are likely not hitting enough balls with a new shaft to get a good indicator as to how good you potentially could be with each shaft. In one of Mark Crossfield’s videos he was saying words to the effect of that when some golfers first try an iron shaft that is is of significantly different weight and/or feel to what they were previously using, their ball striking and accuracy will at first be significantly worse with the new shaft but after hitting enough balls the golfer may be able to tweak their swing and timing a bit so that they can strike the ball well and at the target, no matter what weight or flex the shaft is. This could be by slowing down your swing speed, or trying to swing ‘smoother’etc.  Other golfers will not be good at making the right tweaks no matter how many balls they hit and because the shaft they are using just doesn’t work so well with their particular golf swing then it won’t matter how many balls they hit. That shaft will just not work as well for them compared to a more suitable shaft. 

When you are nervous, it is easier to strike the ball well and be accurate when you are hitting the ball hard so if you play in golf competitions and get nervous then you want to make sure that you have an iron shaft that works for your golf swing when you are hitting the ball hard/ swinging fast (but in control). If you are using an iron shaft that either is too light or not stiff enough for you then your ball striking and accuracy will likely not be as good if you try and hit the ball hard, compared to a heavier and also maybe stiffer shaft.

Extra info based on past experience:

On an occasion when I was experimenting with two different iron shafts which at the time was Dynamic gold S300 at 130 grams versus Dynamic gold SL S300 at 106 grams this is what I found as well. I had used dynamic gold S300 for a number of years and when I first tried the SLS300 shaft my ball striking got significantly worse when I first tried the lighter weight shaft, but after hitting a number of balls and tweaking my swing a bit I was able to hit the ball much better and was quite accurate with both shafts on the practice range but what I found was different on the course (particularly when I was feeling nervous). My bad shots with the SL S300 shaft were significantly worse than the heavier S300 shaft and because of that I preferred the heavier, S300 shaft. I think this was partly because I felt I had to slow my tempo and swing speed down a wee bit with the lighter shaft to make it work for me and on the course when I was nervous I was hitting too many bad shots with the lighter shafts because when you are nervous, as mentioned above it is easier to hit the ball well and be accurate when you hit the ball hard, which I wasn’t able to do with the lighter weight shafts.

Don’t be afraid to ask your fitter to try a different iron shaft at any point, that’s what you’re paying for. Keep asking to try a different shaft until you get one that you like the feel of and then I would advise asking to try out the different flexes available in that shaft as well.

You can get custom fit for every club in your bag but the most important clubs to be custom fit for/ try out different options for are for the shortest golf shots in golf, i.e. your Driver is the least important. With your driver the most important thing is getting the ball out there in play and getting good distance off the tee. Short game, wedge play, iron play are more important for your scoring, in that order.

Although, for me, iron play was the part of golf that I enjoyed the most so I was fussy about what clubheads and shafts I was using in my irons and cared far less about everying else whenever I stopped really caring too much about what my golf scores were, so I was happy using a £15 Dunlop mallet style putter which I actually did ok with and I liked the feel of the putter. I tried demo Scotty Camerons etc and didn’t think I actually putted any better with them compared to the Dunlop. I would not have been taking that attitude though with my irons, mainly because my preferred iron shaft (dynamic gold) mostly only came with irons aimed at good players, so when looking at second hand iron sets on eBay only clubheads from the top brands came with those shafts, but I would have been very much open to using clubheads from a cheaper brand if they had shafts that I liked.

My only experience of getting custom fitted for irons was in 2016 when Titleist were doing a free fitting day for members at the club that I was a member at, on the practice ground. Everyone was hitting balls off of the artificial turf in front of a trackman launch monitor which tracks every shot and shows on a screen where each ball lands and finishes. The launch monitor also gives lots of other data such as clubhead speed, ball speed, launch angle, peak height etc.

At this time Titleist offered a different ‘stock’ shaft in the four different clubheads they offered at the time. For example, for the Titleist 716 CB irons the stock shaft was Dynamic gold AMT so if you were buying those irons in a shop at the cheapest possible price then they would come with that shaft in either regular, stiff or extra stiff flex. There were lots of other different shafts available that you could get but if you wanted one of those other shafts in your Titleist 716 CB irons you would have to pay extra as a custom fit option and you would have to wait a number of weeks to get them but you could buy the irons in the stock shaft right away.

So when I asked the fitter to try the CB irons he started me out in the 7 iron in stiff flex shafts, I think just based on the fact that I was using stiff flex shafts before. After hitting a few balls the fitter was able to see on the trackman launch monitor that I was coming in significantly toe-down at impact and needed the lie angle to be made 2 degrees upright so he was able to change it very quickly on the demo 7 iron that I was using which had an adjustable hosel. I continued to hit balls and then asked to try the different flexes available and I asked to try out the four different clubhead options as well, but I had came into the custom fitting thinking that the CB’s were what I wanted but I wanted to try out all of the four different clubheads available to confirm that choice. After hitting a number of balls with the three different flexes the fitter was advising to go with the extra stiff flex because my misses were not as big with that shaft compared to the stiff or regular flex. In hindsight though I realised afterwards that I did not think to actually properly pick a target or put down an alignment rod on the ground or anything, so I was just sort of hitting the balls all in a general direction and because of that any results of the custom fitting couldn’t really be relied on, but the extra stiff flex was the flex that I preferred the feel of. The fitter did not advise me to make sure I was lining up each shot either so I would advise during your fitting to make sure you line up each shot to the same exact target and try and hit every ball the same, such as perfectly straight. Doing this will ensure you are getting the most accurate information from your fitter when they are comparing your results of one shaft or clubhead to the other.

During this fitting I was not offered to try out any other iron shafts by my fitter and it all felt a bit rushed. I think this was because it was a free fitting session for members and many people were signed up for it so that is maybe why I was not offered to try out different shaft options. If you want time to try out many different shaft options you may have to pay for a proper custom fitting.

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3. VALUE FOR MONEY IN AN IRON SET: 

(LONGER VERSION)

With iron sets, in general all of the top brands of clubheads which would be regarded as (in no particular order), Titleist, Taylormade, Callaway, Srixon, Ping, Cleveland, Cobra, Mizuno, PXG release a range of different clubhead options every two years or so with very minor tweaks made to the newest irons compared to the previous models. The brands may try and tell you about all the improvements that they have made with their latest irons but I am very skeptical as to what they can actually do to improve a golf iron. What you are mostly paying for in a new iron set, (and new wedges as well) compared to older ones that have been well used are the sharp grooves for the highest and most consistent levels of backspin possible. Grooves on irons and wedges will gradually get less sharp over time after hitting lots of golf balls. If you buy new irons you should also get a warranty in case something goes wrong with the irons but irons are built to last many years so it’s very unlikely that you would actually need a warranty for a set of irons but some sellers of second hand golf clubs also give a warranty as well, but the warranty may not last as long.

Brands may claim that irons are more forgiving than the previous model etc but unless they are comparing two different irons with a golf robot when hitting balls out of the exact same point in the clubface towards the toe or heel to see what distance drop offs you get on off-centre hits versus out of the middle then that’s very hard to prove and I have not been able to find any such testing by brands of clubheads when looking online or on youTube, very likely because the latest irons are not any better than the older ones, other than from the fact that they are brand new golf clubs with very sharp grooves. All of the top brands will be capable of doing robot testing to compare their latest irons to the older ones which they may well be doing but are not making the results public knowledge.

The most balls I have ever hit with a game improvement iron was in 2010 when I was wanting to buy new irons and my club pro had two demo 7 irons available for members to try out on the practice ground. One was a 2010 Taylormade R9 which was regarded as a very forgiving cast ‘game improvement’ iron at the time and the other was a Titleist 710 AP2 forged iron which was regarded as a ‘good players’ forged cavity back’. Both of these demo clubs had different shafts but I remember being very impressed by the forgiveness of the Taylormade R9 when I was intentionally trying to hit balls out of the toe or heel. I can’t remember the specific yardage drop offs and I didn’t use impact tape or anything but I thought that I could hit the ball from all over the clubface and I would be still hitting balls on the green. This should be the forgiveness levels that you can expect on all game improvement irons made by any of the top bands since 2010. Ultimately I actually decided to buy the Titleist 710 AP2’s at the time based on limited knowledge because at that time I thought the dynamic gold shafts (stock shaft) in them would be more suitable for the windy links course that I was playing at compared to the KBS tour shafts in the Taylormade R9’s because Dynamic gold was ‘supposed’ to be a lower launch and spin shaft.  I also wanted new irons as soon as possible and I would have had to wait a number of weeks if I wanted shafts other than Dynamic Gold.

I did not realise at that time how little difference the shaft actually makes to ball flight (more on that in my custom fitting advice elsewhere on this listing). I also later regretted spending so much money on new irons when I could have bought a much cheaper set of second hand irons on eBay in good condition.

Because of the groove issue on second hand irons (and wedges as well), clubface condition is the most important thing performance wise to look at when you are looking at photos of second hand iron sets on eBay. What I have found is that photos can be very deceiving when you are trying to see what condition the clubfaces are in. Lighting, camera angle and distance from the lens can make clubfaces look in much better condition than they actually are in and if you look at some of my photos where the clubfaces are all together in the one photo and compare them to the individual close up shots of each clubface you may be able to see examples of this. All of my photos on my eBay listings are all taken with the camera on my iPhone but the camera has to be close up to the clubfaces and at the right angle to properly show up stone chips, clubface wear and worn grooves.

Other than worn grooves, stone chips on clubfaces is potentially another issue that could affect the performance of irons and wedges but I am not sure how many or how big stone chips have to be before that would cause a problem and how much a stone chip could actually affect a golf shot but you would really need a golf robot to properly put that to the test.

In general, the older the irons are, the more likely it will be that they will be well used but this is not always the case. Some people will buy a new iron set with the intentions of playing regularly and then end up rarely playing golf and the clubs will sit in someone’s house for a number of years before they decide to sell them to someone else. I think these irons are the best value for money iron sets because they will have have sharp grooves since the clubs will not have hit many balls. Many people will want a set of say, one year old irons that have been used for 100 rounds before they want an equivalent set of eight year old irons that have been used for ten rounds (which I don’t understand). This is why the market value of second hand irons is decided by a combination of how old the clubs are and what condition they are in, relative to how much the clubs were when they were new. (Second hand irons by lesser known brands will be worth less than irons from the top brands because they were much cheaper than the top brands when the clubs were new).

YOU MAY ACTUALLY BE AT AN ADVANTAGE IF YOU USE IRONS OR WEDGES MADE BEFORE 2009:

In 2009 golf’s governing bodies thought that professional golfers were not getting punished enough for missing fairways because players could still stop the ball quickly on greens when hitting from the semi rough and from good lies in the rough, so golf’s governing bodies forced golf club manufacturers to change the grooves on all irons and wedges so that they produce less backspin. The changes meant that less backspin would be produced by irons and wedges on all shots even from the fairway but particularly when hitting from the semi rough and rough. 

I am not sure of the exact date, but all irons and wedges made after January 2010 will the new grooves and all irons and wedges made before January 2009 will have the old grooves. This groove rule applies to all professional golfers and elite level amateur golfers playing in big amateur tournaments played off scratch which means that these golfers are not allowed to use any irons or wedges that were made before 2009 when playing in those tournaments. The groove rule does not apply to amateur golfers who are playing in normal club and inter-club competitions so from a performance point of view, you are actually at an advantage if you use good condition irons or wedges that were made before 2009. However, since grooves on irons and wedges gradually get worn after hitting many balls then I would assume that there would be a point when a second hand iron or wedge with the old grooves would actually produce less backspin than a new iron or wedge with the new grooves, so basically you will only be at an advantage if you use irons or wedges made before 2009 that are in good condition.

Extra info based on past experience of using old irons/ what can go wrong:

Between the ages of around fourteen to seventeen I had used a set of around fifteen year old Lynx irons on a regular basis and during those few years the one problem that occurred with the clubs was that the 4 iron clubhead flew off the end of the shaft on a random full shot from the fairway and I had to pay my club pro to get the club re-shafted with a new shaft and that was the only thing that went wrong with those irons for the three or so years that I used the clubs. I can’t properly remember but from memory the steel shafts had significant rust and light pitting and the rusting at the bottom of the shaft was very likely the cause of the clubhead separating from the shaft but you can avoid shaft rusting by drying shafts after you get home when playing golf in the rain and by also keeping your clubs in a dry room of your house, not in a moist garage. The grooves were also quite worn on the Lynx irons before I ever started using them because the clubfaces showed significant wear before I ever started to play with them. I played at a firm links course so I had to intentionally land the ball short of every green to play for the ball to run out and it wasn’t until I got new irons at the age of seventeen and saw how quickly the ball was stopping in comparison to my old Lynx irons that I realised how worn the grooves actually were on the Lynx irons. The grooves on my new irons actually had the new grooves as well but the grooves were sharp because they were brand new clubs.

 If you are using irons and/or wedges that have worn grooves, you can play for the extra roll out but that doesn’t work so well when you need to stop the ball quickly. I think sharp grooves will make a bigger difference the firmer the golf course is. At some parkland courses, particularly in the UK and Ireland where it often rains, the greens can be so soft that you can still stop the ball quickly even with worn grooves.

Some people will also say that sharper grooves will provide more consistent levels of backspin compared to worn grooves, particularly from flier lies in the semi rough, but I am not sure about that so I can’t comment. What I have heard from youTube videos is that back in the day tour pros would use irons with worn grooves. Some pros and even some amateurs practice so much with their irons and wedges that there will be ‘penny’ wear marks on some or all of the clubfaces. The grooves on these clubs will certainly be worn where the wear marks are and pros would have been using these irons in competition. It was almost seen as like a ‘badge of honour’ to have these penny marks right bang in the middle of a clubface to show others how good a ball striker you were. So based on that you can clearly still shoot a good score with worn grooves but you certainly won’t get as much backspin compared with new or sharp grooves. 

High levels of backspin is more important with your wedges than on your mid and longer irons so some players who care a lot about their scoring and don’t mind spending the money will choose to replace all of their wedges at least once per year but these same players could be using their irons for several years before replacing them.

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6. HOW TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE BOUGHT A COUNTERFEIT IRON SET ONLNE:

 (LONGER VERSION)

I normally only buy and sell iron sets so I can’t properly comment for any other golf clubs being sold on eBay but from my experience of buying and selling lots of iron sets, I’m pretty sure that the majority being sold on eBay are NOT counterfeit but unfortunately as long as people keep making counterfeit golf clubs then it’s very likely that some will end up getting sold on eBay. Sellers on eBay may actually be completely unaware that the clubs are counterfeit because they bought the clubs off someone else second hand.

I think that some sellers of new and second hand iron sets deliberately make counterfeit golf clubs out to be a far bigger problem than they actually are in an attempt to try and get you to buy irons off them by scaring you into thinking that if you buy a set of irons from a random seller on eBay, then there’s a good chance that they would be counterfeit, which is not true. I have spent time and have really researched this topic because I want to be as sure as possible that no one buys a counterfeit set of irons from me and this is what I have learned:

Some counterfeit irons are obviously fake just by looking at them or even by just looking at photos of them. They just won’t look right and they will look ‘fake’ but some counterfeits do look really good and are much harder to spot just by looking at them without carefully looking at the clubs and comparing them side by side with known genuine irons of the same model in person and/or measuring the loft angles of all the irons in the set (more on that further below).

The goal of people making counterfeit golf clubs are to make clubs that look as much as possible like the real thing as cheaply as possible but these people do not really care for and are not spending the time and money to make them perform like the real thing. For example, when it comes to iron sets I saw on youtube that a club pro measured the loft and lie angles of all of the irons in a set of fake Titleist 718 AP2 irons that he had got the hold of and the 5 iron had a stronger loft than the 4 iron and the 9 iron had a stronger loft than the 8 iron, so if you were to use that set of irons you would likely be hitting the 5 iron further than the 4 iron and the 9 iron further than the 8 iron, which is obviously not what you want. For anyone who wants to watch the youtube video, please do a youtube search for ‘online fakes projectleft’ and it’s the first youtube result. The counterfeit irons in that video are an example of what I would call a ‘good’ set of counterfeits in that the counterfeiters have done a good job at making the clubheads look like the real thing. If you were just looking at the clubheads of the counterfeit set on their own without comparing them to a genuine set it would be hard to know that they were fake just by looking at them but in this particular set of counterfeit irons the most obvious visual giveaway are the clear and obvious fake looking Project X shaft labels which will look fake to anyone who knows what genuine Project X shaft labels actually look like.

The main reason I started measuring the loft and lie angles of all the irons that I sell is because I think this is the best, quickest and easiest way to identify a counterfeit set of irons when you don’t have another set of irons of the exact same model (that you know are definitely genuine) to compare them to. I would actually say this is a better method of identifying fakes than visually comparing a set of irons side by side because I have seen photos online of a ‘good looking’ counterfeit Titleist AP3 5 iron versus a genuine Titleist AP3 5 iron side by side* and when I first looked at the photos the differences between the two clubheads were very subtle and were not clear and obvious to me which scared me a bit when I first looked at the photos, but if I knew that the loft angles of a set of irons were up the left then that would be a more clear cut and obvious way of identifying counterfeits. However, measuring the loft angles is not a completely foolproof method of identifying counterfeit irons because the loft and lie angles on irons often gradually shift a bit over time with use (particularly lie angles) but not to the extent that the 9 iron becomes a stronger loft than the 8 iron etc. Someone could also potentially take a counterfeit set of irons to a club pro or someone who has a loft/lie machine and get them to adjust the loft and lie angles but if this were to happen there would possibly be markings left on hosels and/or clubfaces which would show that someone had the loft and lie angles altered. I think it is unlikely that someone would take the time and spend the money to do that but it’s possible. So because of that I think that measuring the loft angles is a very good but not a completely foolproof method of identifying counterfeit irons.

(*Please do a google search for ‘Titleist AP3 golfclubbrokers’ to see the side by side photos of the genuine versus counterfeit AP3 5 iron. In that particular counterfeit club the most obvious giveaways to me from just looking at it are the longer than normal ferrule (for a Titleist 718 iron) and bigger than normal KBS tour shaft label that also has different font. Please note that sometimes people get irons reshafted and use ferrules which did not originally come with the iron set so in those situations genuine irons could have ferrules that are the ‘wrong’ length.)

If you do have any doubt whatsoever about the authenticity of a set of irons that you buy on eBay or elsewhere, please take them to a club pro and ask them to measure the loft angles of every iron in the set and I think its worth asking them to write them down on a page for you and they probably would not charge you for that because it would take them less than 5 minutes to do. The shortest iron in the set should have the most loft (highest number for loft angle) and the longest iron should have the strongest loft (lowest number for loft angle) and the loft angle of every iron in between should be in order with roughly equal gaps between all of the numbers. On a set of irons there will usually be 3-5 degrees difference in loft between each iron in the set but there will only be half a degree difference on average for lie angle so for that reason looking at the loft angles would be a better and easier way to identify any significant irregularities. If you buy a set of brand new irons then it would be worth having the lie angles measured as well (just to double check), since the lie angles will not have shifted with use, so any significant irregularities in either the loft or lie angles will be a big sign that the clubs are fake.

Counterfeiters often put serial numbers on golf clubs to try and make them look authentic and not all genuine iron sets will have serial numbers (I once bought a brand new set of Mizuno irons from a big name online seller that did not have serial numbers) so because of that, looking at serial numbers is not a useful method of identifying fake golf clubs.

(At the time of writing this I have measured the loft and lie angles on at least 200 second hand iron sets that I have bought and on only two of these occasions were there irregular loft angles of any irons in the set i.e. the 9 iron having a stronger loft than the 8 iron etc. One was a set of Titleist 695 mb’s that actually looked fake to me before I even measured the loft and lie angles but the loft angles (and actually the lie angles as well) were both irregular. The other set of irons with irregular loft angles in the set was a set of ‘Taylormade R11 irons’ that actually had the same dodgy looking Project X shaft labels as on the fake Titleist AP2 irons in that projectleft youtube video. Other than from the shaft labels I could not tell that the clubs were fake just by looking at them but I did not visually compare them side by side against another set of Taylormade R11 irons. 

You can actually measure loft and lie angles on irons (and wedges) yourself pretty accurately using a digital inclinometer but the club needs to be set up properly and you need to know what you’re doing to measure them accurately enough to identify fakes. Please see the ‘more details on measurements’ part of the listing if you would like more information on how to do this. It would maybe be easier and less hassle to get a club pro to measure the loft angles for you.

If you do buy a second hand iron set on eBay (or any other golf club) and later discover that they are counterfeit then you are completely covered by eBay’s money back guarante and you will get a guaranteed refund if you open a case within 30 days of the delivery date, or the estimated delivery date (whichever is later) but it needs to be done within the 30 days to be covered.

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